Discord in Bonn!

[Peter]

There's discord in the world of orchestral music today, following news that the Bonn Beethoven Orchestra's 16 violinists there have launched legal action in a bid to be paid more than their orchestral colleagues, because they have to work harder.

Perhaps not surprisingly, the move has caused something of a clamour from not only their employers but musicians worldwide, who believe the violinists are simply drawing a long bow when they claim they should get paid more cash because they play more notes!



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'Man know thyself'

[Gurn Blanston]

Peter,
If I hadn't read this the other day I would believe you are joking with us (how do you say there "pull the other one, mate"), but yes, it is truly as you say, the claim is "We deserve to get paid more because violins play more notes than other instruments"! {insert your own favorite curse here}
What is the world coming to?


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Regards,
Gurn
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That's my opinion, I may be wrong.
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[Chris]

I can understand their position, though. Violins often play throughout while the trombones or something might play three notes and then wait 40 measures and do it again.

Still, unless they are really underpaid, I'd be happy just to have a career like that. So, it seems a bit ungreatful, I suppose.

[Pastorali]

{ }

[v russo]

Originally posted by Gurn Blanston:
Peter,
If I hadn't read this the other day I would believe you are joking with us (how do you say there "pull the other one, mate"), but yes, it is truly as you say, the claim is "We deserve to get paid more because violins play more notes than other instruments"! {insert your own favorite curse here}
What is the world coming to?

its come to greed, glamor, controversy and moral decline. Let them get paid more then!! What the difference? The classical music industry is a slowly dying animal.
A big fat dated Dinosaur.

[Amalie]

Originally posted by Peter:
There's discord in the world of orchestral music today, following news that the Bonn Beethoven Orchestra's 16 violinists there have launched legal action in a bid to be paid more than their orchestral colleagues, because they have to work harder.

Perhaps not surprisingly, the move has caused something of a clamour from not only their employers but musicians worldwide, who believe the violinists are simply drawing a long bow when they claim they should get paid more cash because they play more notes!

Surely it is a well known fact that the violinists are the workhorses and backbone of every orchestra. It is interesting that many composers have written pieces purely for strings but few purely for wind instruments.

[Pastorali]

I have recently heard something in the news, but I'm not sure what orchestra was meant. They said, if not as fast as possible a new investor will be found, the orchestra will be going to be dissolved. The german government has halved their payments, there is just not enough of money to carry on...

Correct me, if I'm wrong, I think it was concerning the 'Berliner Philharmoniker' ????

[This message has been edited by Pastorali (edited March 27, 2004).]

[Joy]

I agree that the string section is performing throughout while others in the orchestra could probably be doing a crossword puzzle before it's their turn to play. Still I read that everyone in the orchestra does get paid the same no matter what their role. I suppose it does come down a little to greed on the part of the players who are doing more work than others just like in any other profession I suppose.

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'Truth and beauty joined'

[Joy]

Originally posted by Pastorali:
I have recently heard something in the news, but I'm not sure what orchestra was meant. They said, if not as fast as possible a new investor will be found, the orchestra will be going to be dissolved. The german government has halved their payments, there is just not enough of money to carry on...

Correct me, if I'm wrong, I think it was concerning the 'Berliner Philharmoniker' ????

[This message has been edited by Pastorali (edited March 27, 2004).]

I'm afraid this is happening throughout the world, Pastorali. Orchestras going broke and slowly disappearing. It truly is a shame. I, for one, would certainly miss going to classical concerts. It's one of my favourite pasttimes.



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'Truth and beauty joined'

[urtextmeister]

On the one hand, I think this is absurd. I have often heard people joke about getting paid per note, but they are serious? I think almost anyone would rather be actively involved in a performance than counting 562 measures and then playing three notes. It's like the difference between throwing the football and sitting on the bench. If they hate playing so much they probably should give it up.

On the other hand, everyone in every profession complains that they should get paid more than their co-workers in such and such department. It is almost as universal as hating your boss. Why should violinists be any different? I don't think this sort of petty behavior is why the symphony orchestra is an endangered species. I think there are many more ominous reasons for that.

Along that line, I saw "Confessions of a Teenage Drama Queen" yesterday (an excellent movie, by the way) and in the scene where the lead character performs in the school play, the conductors turns to the student orchestra. They are all positioned in front of laptops with their fingers poised above the enter key. It was funny, but horrifyingly realistic.
What a painful reminder of the demise of live music!

[Amalie]

Originally posted by Peter:
There's discord in the world of orchestral music today, following news that the Bonn Beethoven Orchestra's 16 violinists there have launched legal action in a bid to be paid more than their orchestral colleagues, because they have to work harder.

Perhaps not surprisingly, the move has caused something of a clamour from not only their employers but musicians worldwide, who believe the violinists are simply drawing a long bow when they claim they should get paid more cash because they play more notes!

This story reminds me of an incident, if I remember the story correctly, where Arthur Schnabel was recording Brahms Piano Trios, Quartets, and Quintet with a renowned String Quartet.
During one of the breaks, the question came up about the distribution of proceeds, Schnabel responded immediately that he should receive 7/26th of the money! When someone asked how he arrived at that number, he explained as follows:
In the 3 trios, 3 quartets, and 1 quintet, there are 26 participants of which the piano participates 7 times! So the pianists should receive 7/26th of the money.
Needless to say, the renown quartet agreed on the spot!. They were afraid that Schnabel would start counting the notes he played!!.

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They obviously study ergonomics when they want to allocate rewards in accordance with the exact amount of work input.






[This message has been edited by Amalie (edited March 28, 2004).]

[King Stephen]

I would rather play more notes on a violin than less on a tuba, oboe, bassoon, you name it. Which member of the orchestra comes away more tired from performing will be the next cry for more money. Does a violinist get out of breath when he or she plays the vioin?

[Chaszz]

Originally posted by Amalie:
Surely it is a well known fact that the violinists are the workhorses and backbone of every orchestra. It is interesting that many composers have written pieces purely for strings but few purely for wind instruments.

Not to disagree that the violins are the backbone of classical music, Amalie, but I think you are giving winds and horns a bit of a short shrift. Most of the great composers have written serenades and other special works for winds and sometimes for horns. Mozart, Beethoven, Brahms, Wagner and Strauss all wrote some of their most beautiful orchestral passages for horns and winds, and chamber music also.

Here is a 2 CD set of Beethoven compositions for winds, trombones, etc., including of course the Trombone Equali:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...47911?v=glance

Strauss, whose father was a famous horn player, wrote two beautiful horn concertos and a ravishing wind serenade. Dvorak also wrote beautiful wind serenade.

Some of Wagner's most powerful writing was for horns, trombones and tubas. The composer unexpectedly took over as conductor for the last act at the premiere of Parsifal, and set a slow tempo. The horn players said afterwards that they were totally exhausted.

There is also Siegfried's Funeral Music from The Ring, a very powerful piece played almost entirely by the various brass sections.


Chaszz




[This message has been edited by Chaszz (edited March 27, 2004).]

[Amalie]

Chaszz, what you say is absolutely to the point, however, I can only give a personal opinion though I do enjoy wind music, but purely string music seems to have an all together more thrilling deeper emotional impact. I cannot help thinking of the fantastic Vaughan Williams Fantasia on a Theme of Thomas Tallis, for strings, which hs the most profound impact on me whenever I listen to it. Perhaps is is to do with the nature of the instrument, but at times wind music can easily sound like 'Oompah' music being played on a street corner and I suppose you can say that string music can degenerate into fiddle music, but when strings are combined they do produce this glorious soaring sound which to my mind is unbeatable in any chemistry when they are combined though with wind the two together can have an overwhelming effect.
As with the great Handel celebration music like the 'Fireworks'.
Thankyou for the excellent link to Beethoven's compositions for winds etc.
I shall certainly look into further.
I have Beethoven 'Fruhe Blasermusik' by the Berlin Philharmoniker. One piece in particular that I like is , Trio for two Oboes and English horn. A lovely CD to listen to on the whole. .

I also love Siegfried's funeral music from the 'Ring'.


[This message has been edited by Amalie (edited March 28, 2004).]

[Musique]

Originally posted by Amalie:
Chaszz, what you say is absolutely to the point, however, I can only give a personal opinion though I do enjoy wind music, but purely string music seems to have an all together more thrilling deeper emotional impact. I cannot help thinking of the fantastic Vaughan Williams Fantasia on a Theme of Thomas Tallis, for strings, which hs the most profound impact on me whenever I listen to it. Perhaps is is to do with the nature of the instrument, but at times wind music can easily sound like 'Oompah' music being played on a street corner and I suppose you can say that string music can degenerate into fiddle music, but when strings are combined they do produce this glorious soaring sound which to my mind is unbeatable in any chemistry when they are combined though with wind the two together can have an overwhelming effect.
As with the great Handel celebration music like the 'Fireworks'.
Thankyou for the excellent link to Beethoven's compositions for winds etc.
I shall certainly look into further.
I have Beethoven 'Fruhe Blasermusik' by the Berlin Philharmoniker. One piece in particular that I like is , Trio for two Oboes and English horn. A lovely CD to listen to on the whole. .

I also love Siegfried's funeral music from the 'Ring'.


[This message has been edited by Amalie (edited March 28, 2004).]

It does make one think of the mindset of the string players on stage performing let's say, Barber's "Adagio for Strings". Are they concentrating on the music at hand, or are they mentally thinking of the wind players relaxing backstage with coffee in hand????

Todd