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    #1

    Need help with 18th century musical manuscript book.

    I purchased a musical manuscript book ten years ago and have wanted to research the many musical entries that start in the late 18th century. The manuscript originates from England. All entries are for the piano-forte. The first entry caused an eerie sensation upon reading the title for the first time. In beautiful eloquent penmenship (or should I say quillmanship!)is the title, "March played at the execution of Marie Antoinette". This entry is dated 1793. The March is in the key of C minor and is 58 measures long in common time. There is no composer listed. I have not been able to locate any information on the internet regarding this music. So if anyone can point me in the right direction, I would greatly appreciate it.

    The second piece I would like to research is the 8th entry in the manuscript book. This is simply titled "Waltz by Beethoven". This one is more difficult to precisely date. It is between entries that are dated 1819 (Allegretto con spirito) and 1823 (Andantino). The Beethoven waltz is in the key of E-flat major and is 40 measures in length. Did Beethoven ever write a waltz for piano-forte(?), or do you think this is a transcription from an orchestral piece.

    The manuscript contains a total of 35 piano-forte pieces dated from 1793 to the last dated piece 1853, "God save the Queen" (Victoria).

    Please help with information on:
    1. Execution "March"
    2. Beethoven "Waltz"

    Thanks.....
    Tags: None
    #2
    Well the Beethoven Waltz in Eb WoO84 was written in 1824 and published by Muller, Vienna.

    Can't help with the execution march, but that is quite intriguing!

    ------------------
    'Man know thyself'
    'Man know thyself'

    Comment

      #3
      Originally posted by Peter:
      Well the Beethoven Waltz in Eb WoO84 was written in 1824 and published by Muller, Vienna.

      Can't help with the execution march, but that is quite intriguing!
      Thanks for answering, Peter. Regarding the execution "March", do you know of anyway to research this? All I have found on the internet are discriptions of that fateful day in October, 1793. These descriptions do not include anything about the music. Any sites you can suggest?

      Is the Beethoven waltz still in print today? It seems that my local music stores only have his "popular" music. Looking through their vendor catalogs shows they too only offer the "pop" tunes. I do not recall seeing ANY waltz in their catalogs. Hence my thoughts on this being a transcription of sorts. The catalogs I looked through includes the Henle publishers. Any help in this regard is also most welcomed...

      I found your site earlier this week and have been reading the past discussions. I was very impressed with the high level of knowledge you and most everyone else has regarding Beethoven. In fact, this is the reason I pulled the manuscript off the bookshelf and decided to continue researching. I became a "junior member" only last night and will ontinue to enjoy this great site in the future.

      I'll leave you now with another small tidbit from the manuscript. There is a song titled "The Angel"s Whisper" and at the bottom of the first page is written this endearing tale:

      "A superstition, of great beauty, prevails in Ireland, that when a child smiles in its sleep, it is "talking to Angels".

      Bye, for now....

      Comment

        #4
        Originally posted by Musique:
        ... It seems that my local music stores only have his "popular" music. Looking through their vendor catalogs shows they too only offer the "pop" tunes. I do not recall seeing ANY waltz in their catalogs. Hence my thoughts on this being a transcription of sorts. The catalogs I looked through includes the Henle publishers. Any help in this regard is also most welcomed...
        Dear Musique,
        Looking for Beethoven's "unpopular" music is an exercise in frustration.I have been searching for WoO 152,153,155,156 and 158 for a couple of years now and have had no success what ever .The best I could find were a small handful of songs with piano accompaniment (these were all written for piano trio and voice).
        My advice is not to look in music stores ,online or otherwise ,but to look in music collections in libraries and music schools. At my local library are several shelves of music including a great deal of Beethoven,I will have a look around for it.A lot of music is in compilations as well so you might try looking for a book of waltzes rather than just B's waltzes.
        Music teachers are a great resource as are musicians .Ask everyone who plays if they happen to know of the waltz you are looking for.

        I have bugged every one I know connected to music about the WoO's I'm interested and still have come up empty.

        Felix Mendelsshon ,while visiting Queen Victoria in the music room of Buckingham palace found some long lost Handel manuscript
        dedicated to Princess Anne (of Saxon? help me here Amalie)and it launched him ito a whole Handel revivalback home in Germany.
        Queen Victoria was very keen on Beethoven as well so the next time you are in the music room at Buckhouse have a look in the piano bench your waltz might just have been one of the Queens favorites.
        Good luck and if you come across any of the folksong settings in your search do let me know.
        Muriel
        "Finis coronat opus "

        Comment

          #5
          Originally posted by Peter:
          Well the Beethoven Waltz in Eb WoO84 was written in 1824 and published by Muller, Vienna.

          Can't help with the execution march, but that is quite intriguing!

          Peter,

          I bought Beethoven's Waltz WoO84. It is Not the same waltz that I have in this manuscript book. The only thing in common is the key signature (E-flat). I also looked through all of Beethoven's "Dances", and this is Not a part of any of these. Do you know how I can get in contact with a Beethoven scholar? Is there a university, or an entity that has a collection of Beethoven papers, that can research (or show me how to research) further?

          Thanks again for your help....

          Comment

            #6
            Originally posted by Musique:

            Peter,

            I bought Beethoven's Waltz WoO84. It is Not the same waltz that I have in this manuscript book. The only thing in common is the key signature (E-flat). I also looked through all of Beethoven's "Dances", and this is Not a part of any of these. Do you know how I can get in contact with a Beethoven scholar? Is there a university, or an entity that has a collection of Beethoven papers, that can research (or show me how to research) further?

            Thanks again for your help....
            Well you can try contacting the Beethovenhaus in Bonn http://www.beethoven-haus-bonn.de/
            but they are slow to respond I believe! Beethoven did write another waltz in D for piano (WoO85) (3/8 time) in 1825 but that doesn't sound likely!

            ------------------
            'Man know thyself'
            'Man know thyself'

            Comment

              #7
              Originally posted by Peter:
              Well you can try contacting the Beethovenhaus in Bonn http://www.beethoven-haus-bonn.de/
              but they are slow to respond I believe! Beethoven did write another waltz in D for piano (WoO85) (3/8 time) in 1825 but that doesn't sound likely!
              Peter,

              I contacted Beethoven-Haus, Bonn and the Beethoven Center at San Jose University. I have sent scanned copies of the waltz to both through "snail" mail. The curator at San Jose is excited to research. At B-Haus, Julia Ronge is "very curious" and "sounds very interesting". So I must wait for them to evaluate. Thanks for your guidance in this matter. I will update you as progress continues. After all is said and done, would you like a copy of the waltz for your library?

              Enjoying the suspense,

              Todd

              Comment

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