Authentic page mp3s - 3 piano sonatas Op.31

[Peter]

Now available to members at www.kingsbarn.freeserve.co.uk/authentic.html

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'Man know thyself'

[Joy]

Very enjoyable listening! Thanks! The 1st mm (No. 1) is very lively and the piano sounds wonderful. No. 2 3rd mm is one of my favourites beautifully played I might add. Nice tempo. The third piece, did anyone else think this too fast? I know Presto con fuoco is "quick, fast in a fiery manner" but this was lightening fast, he was flying, to my ears anyway. Here's a quote I found about the year 1803 Beethoven said to his friend Krumpholz, "I am not satisfied with my works up to this time. From now on I will try a different path." Soon after this the three Sonatas were published (from Czerny's recollections). As a coincidence the concert hall here will be performing No. 3 tonight with pianist Aleksandar Serdar.




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'Truth and beauty joined'

[Andrea]

Lovely, wonderful and I enjoyed them very much. Thank you Rod.

I have two CDs of the Op. 31 sonatas. One with the Sonata #17, No.2 "Der Sturm" and the Sonata #18 No. 3 performed by Murray Perahia. The other of the Sonata #17, No. 2 performed by Wilhelm Kempff.

Here is what Joan Chissell wrote on this sonata that is included on the CD jacket:

"I am not satisfied with my works to date, and from now on I want to take a different road", so Beethoven allegedly remarked to his violinist friend Krumpholz not long before embarking on his three sonatas of Op. 31, completed in 1802, his 32nd year.

Inner conflicts arising from ominous symptoms of deafness may also have helped to intensify the drama of the D minor sonata's opening movement, where with unpredictable but subtly linked alternations of mysterious spread chords, stormy protest and pleading recitative, Beethoven "imparted a new spirit to Classical sonata form", as Wilhelm Kempff once put it. The Adagio in B flat, likened by Kempff to a song of faith in the "loving Father above the starry firmament", grows from two contrasting themes in the tonic and dominant. In the modulatory transition between them Beethoven introduces a triplet motif in the bass that intermittently returns to unify the whole movement. The concluding Allegretto in D minor conceals the thematic contrasts of a sonata-form argument beneath an almost unbroken stream of semiquavers (16th notes)- for Kempff not so much suggestive of the galloping horses claimed by Schindler as the composer's inspiration but rather of the voice of "the eternally flowing sea".

[Chaszz]

I had no problem with the fortepiano here. These are brilliant, beautiful and profound.

Rod, can you include a few more of the adagios, please, with the sonatas?

[This message has been edited by Chaszz (edited March 17, 2004).]

[Rod]

Originally posted by Joy:
Very enjoyable listening! Thanks! The 1st mm (No. 1) is very lively and the piano sounds wonderful. No. 2 3rd mm is one of my favourites beautifully played I might add. Nice tempo. The third piece, did anyone else think this too fast? I know Presto con fuoco is "quick, fast in a fiery manner" but this was lightening fast, he was flying, to my ears anyway. Here's a quote I found about the year 1803 Beethoven said to his friend Krumpholz, "I am not satisfied with my works up to this time. From now on I will try a different path." Soon after this the three Sonatas were published (from Czerny's recollections). As a coincidence the concert hall here will be performing No. 3 tonight with pianist Aleksandar Serdar.

Well, concerning the Allegro from no1 this is about the best rendition of it I've heard, not that the standard for this movement is high! The Allegretto from no2 is broader here than usual from my experience, though tollerably so and i is better like this than the rushed efforts I've so often heard. The Presto is played about right to my ears, super fast but it doesn't sound rushed because think the music demands this treatment.

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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[Rod]

Originally posted by Chaszz:
I had no problem with the fortepiano here. These are brilliant, beautiful and profound.

Rod, can you include a few more of the adagios, please, with the sonatas?

[This message has been edited by Chaszz (edited March 17, 2004).]

There are no problems with any of the fortepianos I have presented! I'll stick in the odd adagio here and there but its difficult to chose between the movements if they're all played well. Generally I have a preference for allegros as one notices the difference in the qualities of the fp compared to the pf in these movements the most, which is the main point of this excercise.



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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[Chaszz]

Originally posted by Rod:
There are no problems with any of the fortepianos I have presented! I'll stick in the odd adagio here and there but its difficult to chose between the movements if they're all played well. Generally I have a preference for allegros as one notices the difference in the qualities of the fp compared to the pf in these movements the most, which is the main point of this excercise.

I would think the sustaining power of the modern piano might be missed in some of the adagios, and I'd like to compare that also.

[Rod]

Originally posted by Chaszz:
I would think the sustaining power of the modern piano might be missed in some of the adagios, and I'd like to compare that also.

From what I have heard it is a total fallacy that these old pianos have inadequate sustain, certainly for Beethoven's music.

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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[Chaszz]

Originally posted by Rod:
From what I have heard it is a total fallacy that these old pianos have inadequate sustain, certainly for Beethoven's music.

Well, then why not have an adagio or two to demonstrate it?

[Rod]

Originally posted by Chaszz:
Well, then why not have an adagio or two to demonstrate it?

But I have already explained why I have a preference for Allegros. Maybe when we get to concerto no3 you will get an adagio.

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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[Cuprik]

Thanks for posting the mp3s. I especially like No.1 - one of the best performances of this piece I have heard. This sonata, BTW, has the distinction of being the only sonata Stravinsky did not like. What was he thinking?

I once had a recording of Jorg Demus playing Opus 110 on a fortepiano (Graf). It was a revelation. The use of the una corda pedal created an effect that can never be heard on a modern piano. He also 'overplays' the instrument in a way I imagine that Beethoven would have as well, frustrated by it's limitations. The strings buzz in the final movement but it makes it all the more exciting.

If anyone has heard this recording and wants to comment, or better, owns a copy and wouldn't mind posting it, wow. It is long since out of circulation.

[This message has been edited by Cuprik (edited March 18, 2004).]

[Rod]

Originally posted by Cuprik:
Thanks for posting the mp3s. I especially like No.1 - one of the best performances of this piece I have heard. This sonata, BTW, has the distinction of being the only sonata Stravinsky did not like. What was he thinking?

I once had a recording of Jorg Demus playing Opus 110 on a fortepiano (Graf). It was a revelation. The use of the una corda pedal created an effect that can never be heard on a modern piano. He also 'overplays' the instrument in a way I imagine that Beethoven would have as well, frustrated by it's limitations. The strings buzz in the final movement but it makes it all the more exciting.

If anyone has heard this recording and wants to comment, or better, owns a copy and wouldn't mind posting it, wow. It is long since out of circulation.

[This message has been edited by Cuprik (edited March 18, 2004).]

Well I have CDs of the late sonatas (op101 onwards) played on a Graf by Paul Badura-Skoda and he does a pretty good job of them. Occasionally you do get some strings jangling but I agree that taking the instrument to its limits makes for a more exciting effect.


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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[Cuprik]

Originally posted by Rod:
Well I have CDs of the late sonatas (op101 onwards) played on a Graf by Paul Badura-Skoda and he does a pretty good job of them. Occasionally you do get some strings jangling but I agree that taking the instrument to its limits makes for a more exciting effect.

I also have the Badura-Skoda recordings. (op109-111) IMHO, they didn't even come close to the Jorg Demus performance. I couldn't say that op110 is one of my favourites, but it has certainly demanded a huge amount of attention from me. Equal parts captivating and elusive.

Now I'm way off topic. Sorry.

[urtextmeister]

Regarding the G major:

This is a wonderful performance. This convinces me that there is a world of nuance available in some of the old instruments.

I might be alone here, but I hear this movement as a joke. He is poking fun at pianists who can't play with both hands together (or maybe an orchestra that has horrible ensemble skills). And those painfully banal arpeggios that the pianists bangs out as if to say, "There. Wasn't that impressive."
The second movement seems so excessively rococo that I have always thought this a parody work as well.

Of course Beethoven like Shakespeare could combine crude humor with truth and beauty. I suppose that is part of what makes him great.

[Rod]

Originally posted by urtextmeister:
Regarding the G major:

This is a wonderful performance. This convinces me that there is a world of nuance available in some of the old instruments.

I might be alone here, but I hear this movement as a joke. He is poking fun at pianists who can't play with both hands together (or maybe an orchestra that has horrible ensemble skills). And those painfully banal arpeggios that the pianists bangs out as if to say, "There. Wasn't that impressive."
The second movement seems so excessively rococo that I have always thought this a parody work as well.

Of course Beethoven like Shakespeare could combine crude humor with truth and beauty. I suppose that is part of what makes him great.

I agree about the 'world of nuance' provided by these old pianos, but about the G major I personally doubt Beethoven would publish an openly cynical piece of music such as you are hinting at, I would stick with your final remark about combining humour with truth and beauty and leave it at that. I have trained myself to avoid this kind of 'programme searching' where possible, just take the music as you hear it, and it sould stand or fall on that basis (though in Beethoven's case 'fall' is, of course, an unknown circumstance!).

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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[This message has been edited by Rod (edited March 20, 2004).]