Early Pianos - Question

[Peter]

Originally posted by Chris:
I've had a few cuts from my violin strings breaking. Broke one during a performance once (E of course) but was able to finish without it, and thankfully no cuts that time.

Once when I was in high school, once of the cellists broke her C string while tuning and it flew clear across the room and hit me in the leg (I had shorts on!). I've never seen a string just fly off like that - usually at least one end is still attatched.

[This message has been edited by Chris (edited March 15, 2004).]

This happened at the concert in the Theater an der Wien I attended last august - The lead viola's string snapped during the 6th symphony. One of the players further back lent him his viola which was passed discreetly through the ranks in the middle of the storm! Kind of him and I did feel sorry as he had to sit out the rest of that historic concert.

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'Man know thyself'

[Chris]

Indeed. Although I think I'd rather play with three strings than with an instrument I'd never played before.

[Rod]

Originally posted by Gurn Blanston:
Rod,
I'm sure you intended to answer Steppenwolf and not me! I am already in possession of a full collection of "Rod's Pearls of Fortepiano Wisdom", which I have bound in leather and set next to my CD player for casual reading

Yes it was meant for Steppenwolf. For those who can't afford the deluxe leather edition I can supply bargain bucket paperback editions upon request.


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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[Rod]

Originally posted by Gurn Blanston:
Rod,
I'm sure you intended to answer Steppenwolf and not me! I am already in possession of a full collection of "Rod's Pearls of Fortepiano Wisdom", which I have bound in leather and set next to my CD player for casual reading

Yes it was meant for Steppenwolf. For those who can't afford the deluxe leather edition I can supply bargain bucket paperback editions upon request.


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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[Steppenwolf]

Originally posted by Gurn Blanston:
SW,
Man, I can't believe that you have missed the ongoing discussion of this topic that has been going on non-stop for the 18 months that I have been here!! Most recently this was brought up in Rod's posting of the sonatas Op 27. Any of Rod's Authentic Instrument postings that are of piano sonatas in particular will have some discussion of fortepianos. Also numerous links are posted. I'm thinking that Rod hasn't answered this already because he thought perhaps you were not serious due to your longevity here, but anyway, he does have a lot of links about fortepianos, and if you know how to use the "search this site" feature you can probably find a lot more.

Unfortunately I am usually far too busy to read through every topic in this forum, so I have to be very selective in the topics I peruse. I tend to log on, find a topic that catches my eye, and quickly type up a message (usually full of errors). So my acquaintance with many discussions is not as in depth as the true regulars.

But I will now go back and read through all the discussions I have missed on this topic!


[This message has been edited by Steppenwolf (edited March 16, 2004).]

[Steppenwolf]

Thanks for all your suggestions and help.

A final question - which brand would you recomend for a digital piano (I am of course only interested in playing classical music on it)? I am particularly interested in the harpsicord and pipe organ, as well as the piano of course.

[Chris]

I really think Yamaha has the best digital pianos. My Yamaha digital piano has great piano, harpsichord, and organ sounds. Very realistic, great feel to playing it. I tried other brands, but the Yamaha was the best by far.

Of course, there are some problems. The thing looks and feels like a modern piano, so although it has a good harpsichord sound, it feels nothing like playing a harpsichord. It has great organ sounds too, but there are no pedals (I mean organ pedals - it has the three piano pedals), so you can't really play a lot of the organ music out there.

[This message has been edited by Chris (edited March 16, 2004).]

[Gurn Blanston]

Originally posted by Rod:
Yes it was meant for Steppenwolf. For those who can't afford the deluxe leather edition I can supply bargain bucket paperback editions upon request.

Rod,
Well, only the best for me, the hand tooling on the leather was first rate. I particularly admired the detail in the little crucified Bachs.



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Regards,
Gurn
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That's my opinion, I may be wrong.
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[urtextmeister]

Steppenwolf,

You want some advice on digital pianos.

My first advice is: don't buy one if you want the experience of playing a piano. Buy a piano or fortepiano or harpsichord. They can weight the keys (which is more of nuisance in my opinion--they are annoyingly springy) but the sensation of playing a digital instrument is nothing like the real thing. It is like decaf coffee. A poor subsitute.

Having said that, I will tell what midi keyboard I have. It is a cheap Yamaha that I bought used for about $80. It has about 100 decent sounds, but I plug it into my computer and I can access my sound card's instruments, which are surprisingly good and I can download things from the internet. You can get free soundfonts and tons of interesting sounds for a reasonable price on the internet. You can also get CD roms with tons of sounds on them. You might need something extra to actually store sounds on your keyboard.

I have never come across a fortepiano sound, but it sounds like a great idea. Search the internet. Maybe you will find one.

I think Yamahas might be a bit better than Rolands. I know some people swear by Kurzweils. I believe they tend to be more expensive, though.

[Chris]

I disagree! The experience of playing a good digitial piano is very close to playing a modern grand piano. It feels exactly the same to press the keys. We're not talking about some cheap-o keyboards here, we're talking about a beautiful $3500 instrument.

And it never needs to be tuned

[Steppenwolf]

Originally posted by Chris:
I disagree! The experience of playing a good digitial piano is very close to playing a modern grand piano. It feels exactly the same to press the keys. We're not talking about some cheap-o keyboards here, we're talking about a beautiful $3500 instrument.

And it never needs to be tuned

What attracts me most about a digital piano is 1) as you said, it never needs to be tuned, 2) even a top range one is a lot cheaper than a bottom range upright piano and 3) it is possible to play the piano, harpsicord and pipe organ (although I am aware the latter has some limitations, and that the harpsicord probably won't feel exactly like the real thing).

In an ideal world I would buy an authentic version of all three - a real grand piano, harpsicord and pipe organ - but unfortunately I don't own an oil rig!

[Chaszz]

Originally posted by Gurn Blanston:
Rod,
Well, only the best for me, the hand tooling on the leather was first rate. I particularly admired the detail in the little crucified Bachs.

Nonetheless, the paperback edition has a feature which I believe is not in the leather. It has a frontispiece of the famous Doré etching of the Three Crosses, with Steinway on the left, Bach in the center and Wagner on the right.

[Gurn Blanston]

Originally posted by Chaszz:
Nonetheless, the paperback edition has a feature which I believe is not in the leather. It has a frontispiece of the famous Doré etching of the Three Crosses, with Steinway on the left, Bach in the center and Wagner on the right.

Well, perhaps so, but the centerpiece on the leatherbound has a vignette of Mozart on the rack with such realistic detail that one is almost afraid to touch it for fear of getting wig powder on one's hands!




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Regards,
Gurn
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
That's my opinion, I may be wrong.
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[urtextmeister]

Chris,

I have played on these expensive fake pianos at various gigs. They can produce realistic sounds, but they aren't real. I suppose it is like the difference between a being at a concert and listening to a recording.

Music coming out of a speaker is different from music emanating from strings and wood and "real" materials.

A piano key can be struck hundreds of different ways with all sorts of nuance. I don't believe a digital instrument is capable of that. Sometimes the idiosyncrasies of on instrument are part of it's charm. It is like the personality of the instrument. A digital instrument has none of that. It is a cold, efficient robot.

It is a little easier to reproduce a keyboard instrument electronically than something like a violin--imagine all of the shifts and the color of the various strings, the intensity of vibrato. It is however, still a poor substitute. Imagine playing a low, reverberant note on the piano and feeling the long string vibrate and transmit that vibration into your finger and throughout the rest of your body. Playing the piano, just like any instrument is a physical, sensual experience. It feels good. I don't get that from digital.

[Chris]

A piano key can be struck hundreds of different ways with all sorts of nuance. I don't believe a digital instrument is capable of that.

It depends on how many samples are used. I am quite satisfied with mine. Some of the lesser models are problematic in this respect. As with anything, you get what you pay for.

I have never heard a good sampled violin. Lots of strings can be done well sometimes, but the technology has a long way to go before we get a good violin soundfont and a good way to express it.

Anyway, I didn't say it was exactly like the real thing, but it is close enough for me in almost all cases. I wouldn't use one on stage, of course, but we are talking about home use here. I know some people have an instant dislike of electronic instruments, but if you can put aside the philosophical implications for a minute, you can find a lot in them to appreciate.

[This message has been edited by Chris (edited March 18, 2004).]