Modern classical music, why is always derelict?

[Beyond Within]

"but, if there was a great "Beethoven" in our era...would we recognize him? We he get the same attention amidst all the media, pop culture and trash most people are addicted to? Would there be a "market" for him?"


If he goes unrecognized - it is the fault of the era. The previous eras harnessed these people, as opposed to now. That is where the superiority lies. The production of brilliant art requires many conditions to align properly. They all aligned best during those pre-modern periods.

[spaceray]

Originally posted by urtextmeister:
.

One final word on this original topic: the world has changed.
If we are looking for the next Beethoven or Mozart, we should stop expecting him to be wearing a powdered wig.

I shouldn't nit pic but it is my understanding Beethoven never wore a powdered wig.

[Peter]

Originally posted by v russo:
ha, haa! Sorry Peter (please dont kick me off the site). Yes, I was confused...that darned Jin

I actually am sick with a fever. Interesting that you can tell that I am "acting strangley". I apologize to you and Jin (who I admire for liking Radiohead)but, I hope you see the point in my message.
I stand by these points and I never mean to offend anyone.

ULTRA RESPECTFULLY,

As if I'd kick anyone so ultra respectful off the site!

Well I wish you a speedy recovery - may I then suggest middle movement of Op.132 would be appropiate!

For what it's worth the only Messiaen I am familiar with is the strange but exoctic sounding Turangalîla-Symphonie which still falls (just) within my pre 1950's boundary.

I am discovering the joys of early music and am at present stuck in the 12th & 13th centuries with Perotin and Leonin rather than the 20th!

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'Man know thyself'

[This message has been edited by Peter (edited February 26, 2004).]

[v russo]

Originally posted by Peter:
As if I'd kick anyone so ultra respectful off the site!

Well I wish you a speedy recovery - may I then suggest middle movement of Op.132 would be appropiate!

For what it's worth the only Messiaen I am familiar with is the strange but exoctic sounding Turangalîla-Symphonie which still falls (just) within my pre 1950's boundary.

I am discovering the joys of early music and am at present stuck in the 12th & 13th centuries with Perotin and Leonin rather than the 20th!

thanks Peter. I was on an early music kick recently myself. Palestrina and Monteverdi I believe it was...

off to the doctors office,



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v russo

[Joy]

I don't know if I would go so far as to say modern classical music is derelict, however, I do prefer pre 20th century music, especially 1600-the late 1800's. Of the more modern composers I enjoy some of Shostakovich, Rachmaninoff of which I love his Piano Concerto #2 and his Rhapsody on a Theme by Paganini. Also Stravinsky, his Firebird, and I just heard today his Suite Italienne (Sung Ju Lee violinist) which I think is just beautiful. I think I enjoy some of the modern classics but only a mere few compositions of a handful of the composers not like the earlier eras when it's most pieces I enjoy from each composer and, of course, absolutely everything by Beethoven. My personal preference.

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'Truth and beauty joined'

[urtextmeister]

Why don't we have more new "classical" music being produced (maybe we should call this "serious" music or "concert hall" music instead)?
Here is one possible answer:

Because we don't need it anymore!

In the era of Beethoven there was a much smaller interest in preserving music of the past. No recordings, fewer copies of music in circulation. When music was needed for an occasion, it was natural to have someone compose something fresh.

Now, if you want classical music there are countless recordings and printed editions of music for all instrument combinations in every concievable style.

This has had an impact on many aspects of the arts, but here is one example from my own experience: I work with ballet companies and I have noticed that 9 times out of 10 when someone creates a "new" work of dance, they will use some "old" music (preferably public domain)and use a recording of it instead of paying live musicians.

It is similar with symphony orchestras. It is much more complicated and expensive to rehearse and perform a new work than it is to throw together a Brahms symphony they have done a hundred times. And who really appreciates it?

If we want "serious" music to flourish, we must create a need for it.

[Peter]

Originally posted by urtextmeister:

Why don't we have more new "classical" music being produced (maybe we should call this "serious" music or "concert hall" music instead)?
Here is one possible answer:

Because we don't need it anymore!

In the era of Beethoven there was a much smaller interest in preserving music of the past. No recordings, fewer copies of music in circulation. When music was needed for an occasion, it was natural to have someone compose something fresh.

Now, if you want classical music there are countless recordings and printed editions of music for all instrument combinations in every concievable style.

This has had an impact on many aspects of the arts, but here is one example from my own experience: I work with ballet companies and I have noticed that 9 times out of 10 when someone creates a "new" work of dance, they will use some "old" music (preferably public domain)and use a recording of it instead of paying live musicians.

It is similar with symphony orchestras. It is much more complicated and expensive to rehearse and perform a new work than it is to throw together a Brahms symphony they have done a hundred times. And who really appreciates it?

If we want "serious" music to flourish, we must create a need for it.

I think you're right. If you wanted to hear classical music performed well in the past, you had to go to a concert/recital - these days its far more convenient just to put on a CD!

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'Man know thyself'

[v russo]

Originally posted by Peter:
I think you're right. If you wanted to hear classical music performed well in the past, you had to go to a concert/recital - these days its far more convenient just to put on a CD!

Due to these cultural circumstances and others, Phillip Glass- and other contemporaries- have called the concert music of our age, "Post-Classical Music". I think there is much truth in this statement, in many ways.


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v russo

[Ahmad]

Originally posted by Joy:
Of the more modern composers I enjoy some of Shostakovich, Rachmaninoff of which I love his Piano Concerto #2 and his Rhapsody on a Theme by Paganini.

Rachmaninoff is a late romantic composer who prefered romanticism over the new styles that arose in his time...

[jman]

Originally posted by v russo:
Leave Jin alone! Stop being so stuffy. Radiohead is a good example of a band that makes relevant music and is also tuned into its time. All music (in any genre) should be this way. Did you know that Radiohead (yes "Radiohead") has sampled (yes "sampled")modern composers such as Paul Lansky in thier recordings? Check out "Kid-A" and "Amnesiac".

Great music, is great music....chill out.

go Jin!!

Actually I LOVE Radiohead. I just meant that it's funny how my love classical music and "weird" music are mixed, and apparently I'm not the only one with the weird cross. I say "weird" because face it, it's not always your everyday on the radio music. And a lot of people think it's weird just because it is different. On the musical note, Kid A is my favorite CDs of theirs, well the ones that I've heard. I've actually only heard OK Computer, Kid A, and Hail to the Thief. As for that latest release, I think 2+2=5 is the best song of theirs ever done, but other then a few other songs that CD was rather boring.

And turing back to the original subject...I've been iffy about "modern" music. There's some that just doesn't sound "right" to me because of how differently it compares to what I'm used to...but there's some that just sounds so incredible, because it's so different than the composers of centuries past.

Any chance anyone knows of Pierre Gallant? He's a Canadian composer, still alive in fact. I don't know much of what he's written (and don't know where to find out!) but he has a handful of pieces in repertoire for the Royal Conservatory of music, especially the early grades. There's a grade 10 piece called "Six Variations on Land of the Silver Birch" that I sometimes consider my favorite of all the piano pieces I've ever played.

Anyone ever heard of him?

[This message has been edited by jman (edited February 29, 2004).]

[benjamin]

there are no good movies any more so script writers, producers and the rest conspire to interspers every scene with nudity, sleaze and suchlike just to attract an audience. they don't compose good music any more,and the so called modern composers go to absurd lenghts to come up with something - just anything.
i pine for the good old days.

[v russo]

Originally posted by benjamin:
there are no good movies any more so script writers, producers and the rest conspire to interspers every scene with nudity, sleaze and suchlike just to attract an audience. they don't compose good music any more,and the so called modern composers go to absurd lenghts to come up with something - just anything.
i pine for the good old days.

ah, ...so hopeless.





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v russo

[v russo]

Originally posted by jman:

Actually I LOVE Radiohead. I just meant that it's funny how my love classical music and "weird" music are mixed, and apparently I'm not the only one with the weird cross. I say "weird" because face it, it's not always your everyday on the radio music. And a lot of people think it's weird just because it is different. On the musical note, Kid A is my favorite CDs of theirs, well the ones that I've heard. I've actually only heard OK Computer, Kid A, and Hail to the Thief. As for that latest release, I think 2+2=5 is the best song of theirs ever done, but other then a few other songs that CD was rather boring.

And turing back to the original subject...I've been iffy about "modern" music. There's some that just doesn't sound "right" to me because of how differently it compares to what I'm used to...but there's some that just sounds so incredible, because it's so different than the composers of centuries past.

Any chance anyone knows of Pierre Gallant? He's a Canadian composer, still alive in fact. I don't know much of what he's written (and don't know where to find out!) but he has a handful of pieces in repertoire for the Royal Conservatory of music, especially the early grades. There's a grade 10 piece called "Six Variations on Land of the Silver Birch" that I sometimes consider my favorite of all the piano pieces I've ever played.

Anyone ever heard of him?

[This message has been edited by jman (edited February 29, 2004).]

check out 'Amnesiac' as well. It is the CD in between 'Kid A' and 'Hail to the Thief' (that political album with the reference to George Bush in the title). I agree with your assesment of 'Hail to the Thief'. There are some good songs and bad ones. It is not there most consistent album. I was a bit dissapointed my self.

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v russo

[This message has been edited by v russo (edited March 06, 2004).]

[cosplusisin]

wow! this is only my second post on this message board. my first post is asking for advice (so far no one has replied), but until very recently, I have been listening only to rock music and the like, and my favorite has been radiohead for quite some time... I always kind of wondered how many classical music lovers also listen to radiohead, because, while I am not too well educated in music or music history, I do play music (I've played guitar for 10 years and I started learning piano/keyboard just over a year ago), and I do see that there is something in their music, but now I've found there's lots in what they call "classical" music. I am young (22), so the culture has affected me I guess, and you don't get exposed to too much beethoven in the mainstream media.

on another note, regarding current classical composers, has anyone heard of Mikis Theodorakis? His soundtrack to "Z" has some beautiful moments on it, as does the "Phaedra" soundtrack.

Sorry again (I apologized in my other post for "rambling") for rambling... I am new to this board... Hi!

[This message has been edited by cosplusisin (edited March 12, 2004).]

[Opus131]

Originally posted by cosplusisin:
I always kind of wondered how many classical music lovers also listen to radiohead

Unfortunaly, i think i phased out Rock music before i got a chance to know this band, therefore, i can't really comment on them.

Is there any band from the 70's and 80's that you also like ?!? Just in case we can find some common ground

BTW, if you are still litening to Rock, check out 80's and 90's King Crimson.

It was throught their music that i was able to jump into classical with a semi-informed attitude.