Who has the fastest 7th?

[chrisg]

Peter,

Sorry if I've misunderstood your postition, perhaps I took you too literally here.

Why double the number of Brass players ? Surely if the authentic movement has taught
us anything, it is to get a way from the vast overblown romanticised interpretations of
the late 19th century - Mahler was a prime culprit in this.

The doubling the horns suggestion is just having a little fun. I do think though, that it might be great fun to hear. The authentic movement has taught me to enjoy music in a new and different way, but has definitely not taught me to "get away" from anything. It has also taught me that "authentic" (a topic for much debate) conductors, can be just as dull as their more traditional counterparts.

For the Eroica, I would never want to be without the ultra-Romantic Furtwangler, the drama of Klemperer, the maniacal drive of Scherchen, the HIP Mackerras, the even HIP'er Jordi Savall, or the best of all worlds Rene Leibowitz. I can listen to any of these (and other) diverse approaches with equal pleasure, and for me, that's all gain. I have a hard time understanding why anyone who loves this music would limit themselves to one approach.

In your last post you put it very differently:

I THINK HISTORICAL PERFORMANCES ADD A VALUABLE NEW DIMENSION AND THROUGH ROD'S ENTHUSIASM I HAVE COME FROM A POSITION OF DISMISSAL TO ONE OF APPRECIATION.

I agree 100%.

AS LONG AS A PERFORMER RESPECTS BEETHOVEN - I CAN RESPECT THE PERFORMER.

Here's a gray area. I'm curious as to some examples of performers you (or anyone else) think have dis-respected Beethoven through their interpretations.

cg



[This message has been edited by chrisg (edited 01-25-2001).][/B][/QUOTE]



[This message has been edited by chrisg (edited 01-25-2001).]

[euphony131]

Originally posted by ~Leslie:

I clocked my humble recording of the 4th mvt of the 7th w/ Janos Ferencsik conducting at 137 BPMs. Ending at 7.06. Repeats? elephino.

Leslie,

What do you mean by "elephino?" Affirmative on the repeats? Than by God that is the version I need to get!

[~Leslie]

Uh, it is a cross between an elephant and a rhino. eleph - ino ~#:^0

And it meant I didn't know if they played the repeats or not. As a Beethovenian in moderately good standing in this British gentlemen's site that must mean I deserve to be horsewhipped on the stairs of the club.

Were it not for everyone soundly asleep in this household, I'd give it a spin, but it will have to wait til tommorrow.

I DO like some confrontation, it lends interest to a forum, but I'd hate to see everyone getting their subjective hackles up about what Beethoven would have wanted, etc, etc.

But that cul de sac always leads me to the ever pervasive question of what would Beethoven want if he had access to modern recording technology and instrumentation. ~Ciao~

[Peter]

Originally posted by chrisg:
I'm curious as to some examples of performers you (or anyone else) think have dis-respected Beethoven through their interpretations.

cg

Well the Poco Sostenuto of the 7th Symphony is an example - Karajan takes this at a ridiculously fast pace, completely destroying the architecture of this introduction. Kurt Massur does the same with the Introduction to The Consecration of the House, which should be very stately - Rarely is the 1st movement of Symphony no.5 played Allegro CON BRIO - what right has a conductor to ruin this exciting and vigorous music by playing it half speed ? - the opening bars are always TOO slow. There really are plenty of examples where artists have taken tremendous liberties with B's intentions, and to no point - I cannot say that I have ever heard an example of someone improving on Beethoven - when played AS HE ASKS, the result is ALWAYS far superior.

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'Man know thyself'

[Rod]

Originally posted by Peter:
Well the Poco Sostenuto of the 7th Symphony is an example - Karajan takes this at a ridiculously fast pace, completely destroying the architecture of this introduction. Kurt Massur does the same with the Introduction to The Consecration of the House, which should be very stately - Rarely is the 1st movement of Symphony no.5 played Allegro CON BRIO - what right has a conductor to ruin this exciting and vigorous music by playing it half speed ? - the opening bars are always TOO slow. There really are plenty of examples where artists have taken tremendous liberties with B's intentions, and to no point - I cannot say that I have ever heard an example of someone improving on Beethoven - when played AS HE ASKS, the result is ALWAYS far superior.

I agree absolutely, if fact rarely is ANY Beethoven allegro con brio actually played in this manner. This lameness in interpretation is correspondingly felt across the whole tempo range - allegro becomes allegro moderato, allegro moderato/ma non troppo becomes quasi andante, adagio becomes largo! So that the music becomes so ponderous that the repeats have to be ommited! How and why this has come to be I just don't know, I have mentioned elsewhere an interview with the Lindsay Quartet I read recently whereby they are actually going to take notice of the mentronome marks for their new Beethoven recordings. Why now and not 20 years ago?

Rod

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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin