Authentic page mp3s - String quintet Op.29

[Peter]

Now available to members at www.kingsbarn.freeserve.co.uk/authentic.html


------------------
'Man know thyself'

[Opus131]

How do you enter that page ?!?

[Rod]

Originally posted by Opus131:
How do you enter that page ?!?

Via a password that Peter provides members ,thought you would have it by now!

------------------
"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[Peter]

Originally posted by Opus131:
How do you enter that page ?!?

Thanks to Chris it is sent automatically now. You can access the page either from the main menu (under mp3s) or from the link provided. I'll send you the password if you've lost it.

------------------
'Man know thyself'

[Joy]

I just heard this one played this week on the classical station. All week they have had Beethoven's music playing his piano trio, some string quartets and this one. Very enjoyable recording also. It's a shame this is one of his least known works. All the information was interesting regarding the music too. Was all that on the CD notes? If it was they gave you quite a bit of musical information. Enjoyed it!

------------------
'Truth and beauty joined'

[This message has been edited by Joy (edited February 26, 2004).]

[Gurn Blanston]

Rod,
Splendid. Too bad we don't get to talk about fortepianos this time! But I am curious about stringed instruments from that time. The changes to the violin etc. involve a lot more than merely string composition, we are talking about the length and angle of the neck, height of the bridge, all kinds of stuff that is essential to the instrument. And nearly every instrument in existence at the time was converted to this new standard. So, are we just talking gut strings then, or the whole deal? In any case, they sound fine.
Oh yes, I appreciate your efforts to provide so much information. Lot of work.

------------------
Regards,
Gurn
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
That's my opinion, I may be wrong.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[This message has been edited by Gurn Blanston (edited February 26, 2004).]

[Rod]

The notes are not from the CD liner, I found them on the web, part of the unusually comprehensive programme notes to a concert. I would provide the original link but I've lost it.

The issue of the old stringed instruments is exactly that of the fortepiano as far as I am concerned, but we'll be talking about fortepianos again soon with op30 and op31! Primarily the strings themselves are the most important issue to my mind (though the other elements regarding the neck etc cannot be forgotten), together with a factor not directly linked to the instrument itself, the use of, or idealy the reduced use of, vibrato.



[This message has been edited by Rod (edited February 26, 2004).]

[Rutradelusasa]

Hey!, there is the movement number! Thanks again.

Also thanks for the beautiful piece.

[Rod]

Originally posted by Rutradelusasa:
Hey!, there is the movement number! Thanks again.

Also thanks for the beautiful piece.

Well 'ask and ye shall receive'!

------------------
"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[Chaszz]

Very nice movement. Thanks.

[Gurn Blanston]

Originally posted by Rod:
... The issue of the old stringed instruments is exactly that of the fortepiano as far as I am concerned, but we'll be talking about fortepianos again soon with op30 and op31! Primarily the strings themselves are the most important issue to my mind (though the other elements regarding the neck etc cannot be forgotten), together with a factor not directly linked to the instrument itself, the use of, or idealy the reduced use of, vibrato.

Rod, yes, vibrato, quite so. It never fails to amaze me that otherwise proficient fiddlers, with splendid technique and huge sound, do not understand the simple dictum "refrain from using all but a little vibrato on music written before 1830". No vibrato at all would not be correct either, but dammit, we needn't be overrun with it. Since, unlike yo who are a fortepiano fan, the greatest share of my listening is of violin music, this takes on a greater significance even. And although clasical era music is rife with it, baroque is right out! I guess this is why I like Andrew MAnze so much, apparently he never learned how to do that, so no problem




------------------
Regards,
Gurn
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
That's my opinion, I may be wrong.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[Rod]

Originally posted by Gurn Blanston:
I guess this is why I like Andrew MAnze so much, apparently he never learned how to do that, so no problem

This overuse of vibrato is the curse of classical music, that goes for singers too. I have the complete Handel violin sonatas by Manze, complete with the sonatas that were not actually by Handel too , he's a stylish player. I may put a track or two on my Handel yahoo group soon.


------------------
"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin



[This message has been edited by Rod (edited February 27, 2004).]

[Gurn Blanston]

Rod,
Yes, stylish sums it up nicely. What irritates me is that he is not doing things that others cannot do, it is that they don't wish to do it. That is inexcusable, if you are going to play the music, don't play Biber as though it was written by Vieuxtemps!
I know you are loathe to diversify, but his Tartini, Rebel, Biber, Telemann and Vivaldi are all superb examples of period violin playing.


------------------
Regards,
Gurn
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
That's my opinion, I may be wrong.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[Andrea]

Lovely piece. Danke Rod.

Here again is the information I posted about this quintet back in Nov. 2003:


It appears that Beethoven had a bit of a publishing problem with his Quintet, Op.29:

"Beethoven was ever ready to do battle when he thought his interests had been slighted, but never more so then after his return from Heiligenstadt, when he became embroiled in a quarrel with the Viennese publishers Artaria and Mollo. The man who sighed in Heiligenstadt spouted in the city. The change came virtually overnight. The facts of the case are intricate. Beethoven had composed a string Quintet, Op. 29, and had sold it to the Leipzig publishers Breithopf and Härtel. Artaria and Company wished to have the Quintet for publication in Vienna, and consequently borrowed a copy of the manuscript from Count Moritz von Fries, to whom the Quintet was dedicated, telling him (according to Beethoven) that the Quintet was already published and on sale in Vienna, but that they wanted a copy for the purpose of correcting their edition, which was faulty.

Count Fries gave them his copy, and in short order the work was published in a version competitive with that of Breitkopf and Härtel. When Beethoven saw it, he flew into a rage, saying that it constituted a breach of agreement between himself and Breitkopf and Härtel, publishers who were friends of his and whose good will was important to him. He dashed off a long letter to Breitkopf and Härtel, dated November 13, 1802, in which he called Artaria and Company "arch-villains", "scoundrels", pointing out that both Mollo and Artaria, though two different publishers, were really only one firm-that is, "one whole family of scoundrels"-proposed to take legal action against them, and said that he approved of any steps, "even of a personal character", that could be taken.

Not content with intramural attempts to straighten things out, Beethoven rushed into the open and published in the Wiener Zeitung of January 22, 1803, the following notice:
"TO MUSIC LOVERS. In informing the public that the original Quintet in C Major, long ago advertised by me, has been published by Breitkopf and Härtel in Leipzig, I declare that I have no part in the edition published at the same time by Herren Artaria and Mollo in Vienna. I am the more constrained to make this declaration because this edition is highly faulty, incorrect, and quite useless to players, whereas Herren Breitkopf and Härtel, the rightful owners of this Quintet, have done all in their power to produce the work as beautifully as possible."
Ludwig van Beethoven

Obviously Artaria and Company, a respectable publishing house, could not let so direct an accusation pass uncontested. They filed a petition on February 14, 1803, in the High Police Court, demanding a retraction by Beethoven. Artaria deposed that Count Fries had bought the Quintet and was within his rights to hand over a copy to Artaria for publication. They accompanied their deposition by a written statement from Count Frie, who confirmed the points put forth by Artaria, who also stated that Mollo had nothing whatever to do with the edition. As to the faults which Beethoven claimed, Beethoven himself had corrected two copies of the edition and consequently, if there were any mistakes, it was Beethoven who was responsible for them.

Beethoven replied that Count Fries had told him personally that Artaria had obtained the Quintet by "trickery"; later he did have to admit that he did correct two copies; out of anger he had not done a thorough job.

On September 26, 1803, the court ruled against Beethoven. They ordered him to retract his notice of Jan. 22, submitting such a retraction to the court prior to its publication. A report date of Dec. 4, 1803, shows that Beethoven was summoned to court and was clearly told that he must publish his disavowal. And yet he did not. He would not. Indeed, he never came forth with a retraction, in spite of a further judgment by the court on March 8, 1805. All he could concede by way of apology was to insert the following on March 31, 1804:
ANNOUNCEMENT TO THE PUBLIC
"After having inserted a statement in the Wiener Zeitung of January 22, 1803, in which I publicly declared that the edition of my Quintet published by Mollo did not appear under my supervision, was faulty in the extreme and useless to players, the undersigned hereby revokes the statement to the extent of saying that Herren Mollo and Co. have no interest in this edition, feeling that I owe such a declaration to do justice to Herren Mollo and Co. before a public entitled to respect."
Ludwig van Beethoven

The matter dragged along for almost three years until the lawyers for both parties signed an agreement (Sept. 9, 1805) concerning future editions of this Quintet. Beethoven got over his anger, Artaria over theirs and the firm continued to publish some of Beethovens works."

-(from "Beethoven, Biography of a Genius" by George R. Marek)

[Rod]

Originally posted by Gurn Blanston:
Rod,
Yes, stylish sums it up nicely. What irritates me is that he is not doing things that others cannot do, it is that they don't wish to do it.

It is a rare thing indeed for a performer to have ability and taste in equal proportion.

------------------
"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin