Authentic page mp3s - piano sonatas Op.27

[Rod]

Originally posted by Peter:
Czerny's remark that he didn't know how Beethoven could have played on such an instrument implies a little more than being fussy - there must have been genuine grounds for him to make such a remark and his comments at the very least suggest that he was not happy with the earlier fps.

Schnabel was even more fussy than Czerny from what I've read, so how does this fit into your equation?


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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[Peter]

Originally posted by Rod:
Schnabel was even more fussy than Czerny from what I've read, so how does this fit into your equation?

A politician's response! I don't have an equation and don't see what Schnabel has to do wtih Czerny and the issue of fps. I'm merely curious as to why Czerny would have made such a comment about Beethoven's pianos - he obviously considered later pianos to be better.

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'Man know thyself'

[Chaszz]

Almost as an ironic counterpoint to this thread, on the radio last evening I heard Beethoven's 3rd Piano Concerto performed by Mitsuko Uchida with the Royal Concertgebouw Orchestra conducted by Kurt Sanderling. A fine modern version and so beautiful and expansive. The sonic environment was wonderfully melodic and spacious, the rhythms so relaxed that one felt buoyed upon a shimmering sea. One wonders how this concerto could possibly be improved, not detracted from, by being played on a fortepiano. Perhaps we shall find out.

[Rod]

Originally posted by Chaszz:
Almost as an ironic counterpoint to this thread, on the radio last evening I heard Beethoven's 3rd Piano Concerto performed by Mitsuko Uchida with the Royal Concertgebouw Orchestra conducted by Kurt Sanderling. A fine modern version and so beautiful and expansive. The sonic environment was wonderfully melodic and spacious, the rhythms so relaxed that one felt buoyed upon a shimmering sea. One wonders how this concerto could possibly be improved, not detracted from, by being played on a fortepiano. Perhaps we shall find out.

Interesting that you are now interested in accoustics in this circumstance but are not prepared to make allowances for the poor accoustic of the Presto. You may recall my mentioning of a review in my local evening paper of a recent performance in London of the 3rd Concerto by Levin (on an original Viennese fortepiano) and the Orchestra of the Age of Enlightenment? The review was wholely positive in every respect. I have presented the Largo from the 3rd on the fp here before some time ago, I presume you were not around to hear it. I wonder what you will make of Op.28!?


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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin


[This message has been edited by Rod (edited February 14, 2004).]

[Rod]

Originally posted by Peter:
A politician's response! I don't have an equation and don't see what Schnabel has to do wtih Czerny and the issue of fps. I'm merely curious as to why Czerny would have made such a comment about Beethoven's pianos - he obviously considered later pianos to be better.

The politician suggests that the then existant piano was never unsatisfactory enough to prevent Beethoven writing for these very instruments, often performing himself, the only piano music I consider worth listening to. Remember it was Czerny and not Beethoven who made the remark about the instrument, Beethoven was obviously content to play on it, whereas not even the best Steinway was fit for Schnabel.

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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[Peter]

Originally posted by Rod:
The politician suggests that the then existant piano was never unsatisfactory enough to prevent Beethoven writing for these very instruments, often performing himself, the only piano music I consider worth listening to. Remember it was Czerny and not Beethoven who made the remark about the instrument, Beethoven was obviously content to play on it, whereas not even the best Steinway was fit for Schnabel.

Beethoven made several unfavourable remarks about fps, the most damning in 1826 "It is and remains an inadequate instrument."

As for Bardura-Skoda's 'authenticity' in use of mute in Op.27, no such direction appears in a Beethoven score until the 4th piano concerto, but at least you agree with me on this!

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'Man know thyself'

[Rod]

Originally posted by Peter:
Beethoven made several unfavourable remarks about fps, the most damning in 1826 "It is and remains an inadequate instrument."

That quote asks more questions than it answers, for he never made such remarks when he was a virtuoso mingling with piano manufacturers all the time who were only to happy to have their models made to B's specification. Remember the times he praised Streicher's instruments.

By 1826 he was too deaf to hear the much larger models then being made yet the critisism is made at this time. Beethoven did not elaborate what he meant by this remark. In any case it has never been my position that the pianos of his day were perfect, only that they are (much) better suited to the music he composed than the modern style instrument.

Originally posted by Peter:

As for Bardura-Skoda's 'authenticity' in use of mute in Op.27, no such direction appears in a Beethoven score until the 4th piano concerto, but at least you agree with me on this!

Who stated that this use of the mute was authentic? Not me that's for certain. I have stated more than once I thought is was overused by fp performers today. Above I said I'd like to have heard the adagio played with dampers raised but without the mute, at least to be allowed to make my own judgement on the matter.

I can state for certain that Beethoven made not a single reference to the use of the moderator lever/pedal in his scores, are you confusing it with the keyboard shift pedal? I suggest it can be used but with discretion.

I have just discovered this very interesting link on this matter on the web that seems to support my position regarding the performance of the adagio with regard to the moderator. I advise that everyone reads it, though I haven't read it all yet myself:
http://www.quilisma.com/pages/Catalo...es_quil303.htm

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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin


[This message has been edited by Rod (edited February 15, 2004).]

[Peter]

Originally posted by Rod:
Who stated that this use of the mute was authentic? Not me that's for certain. I have stated more than once I thought is was overused by fp performers today. Above I said I'd like to have heard the adagio played with dampers raised but without the mute, at least to be allowed to make my own judgement on the matter.

I can state for certain that Beethoven made not a single reference to the use of the moderator lever/pedal in his scores, are you confusing it with the keyboard shift pedal? I suggest it can be used but with discretion.

I have just discovered this very interesting link on this matter on the web that seems to support my position regarding the performance of the adagio with regard to the moderator. I advise that everyone reads it, though I haven't read it all yet myself:
http://www.quilisma.com/pages/Catalo...es_quil303.htm

Yes I was referring to the keyboard shift in relation to Beethoven's first indications for that in 1806. However my point about Bardura-skoda is still valid - why does he use the moderator when Beethoven specifically asks the performer not to 'senza sordino'?

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'Man know thyself'

[Rod]

Originally posted by Peter:
Yes I was referring to the keyboard shift in relation to Beethoven's first indications for that in 1806. However my point about Bardura-skoda is still valid - why does he use the moderator when Beethoven specifically asks the performer not to 'senza sordino'?

Why are you asking me this? I've been asking myself the same question!


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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin