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**Chris** · 12-14-2000, 07:17 AM

My opinion - Brendel. His lastest cycle is absolutely fantastic - best I've ever heard. I can't think of a single one I'd say is even average. I'd say they are all highly above average, and some are simply the best. The interpretation is superb. But are you saying you heard he doesn't use the pedals? Well, that's not true at all. I think his pedal usage is great.

**Rod** · 12-14-2000, 09:35 AM

Forget all the big names, in my opinion the best complete set you can get by one individual is by Paul Badura-Skoda using a variety of fortepianos. One of the disks has a pretty poor sound quality, but the rest are very good. Very hard to come by these days however, as the set has been deleted from the catalogue.

Rod

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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

**Peter** · 12-14-2000, 09:49 AM

The problem is that you will always get conflicting views on this - The answer is to buy the sonatas individually ! As to Brendel not using the pedals - I've never heard that before - he certainly uses them in the recording of the last 5 sonatas, which are the only Brendel Beethoven interpretations I have.
You also have the problem of period v's modern instruments .
If I were buying a complete set I would go for the historical Schnabel (1935 - mono) (PEARL) - I believe Pearl's remastering offers the best sound quality of this recording.

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'Man know thyself'

**PDG** · 12-14-2000, 11:22 AM

Amadeus (surely, not THE.....?),

No complete cycle will ever reveal the whole truth (there`s that word again) behind this life-enhancing oeuvre, as each interpretation offers its own insights. I grew up with the Kempff set on DG LPs, and for years, would listen to no other; but then I heard a cycle by Barenboim, and was eventually privileged to hear the first-ever recorded complete opus, by Schnabel. Which is the best? I could not say - like one`s children, each, in turn, will tug at the heartstrings and be deemed the favourite, but there will never be an overall winner.

In terms of value, I still think, though, that Bernard Roberts` Nimbus set (11 DDD cds for around £22) is impossible to beat.

A far as the concertos go, I`ve not heard a completely satisfactory cycle; Pollini on DG is special, although I don`t know whether his are available as a complete set.

**Serge** · 12-14-2000, 03:38 PM

Brendel is a very good choice; he is renowned as one of the best Beethoven interpreters ever. I must, however, allow for Anton Kuerti (I'm glad you mentioned him). His cycle is mesmerizing. I love his subtlety and his clear, taut sound. Some mov'ts drag on a little, but it's a small price to pay. His cycle includes a booklet as well with his own views on the performance and composition of the pieces, and it is a wonderful read. It is one thing to hear a pianist play thru the sonatas but another thing entirely to hear a pianist play thru the sonatas and read along what he's written about them. You get a very clear idea of why he plays the way he does.

Bonus: the cycle includes the Diabelli var. as well.

**PDG** · 12-14-2000, 09:30 PM

Since we`re talking bonuses, I believe that Jeno Jando`s complete set on Naxos is worthy of mention - not only was it the first bargain-priced set available (bravo, Naxos!), but volume 10, available separately, contains op.28, WoO 47 (1 -3), WoO 51 & Anhang 5, nos. 1 & 2.

**amadeus** · 12-15-2000, 01:02 AM

WAIT.... No one has anything to say about Arrau. I read some reviews that his interpretations were better then Schnabel's. That his slow playing is perfectly suited for Beethoven. But the again I believe his recordings were done in the sixties and I havent got a clue to how good the sound quality is. So far the favorite seems to be Brendel.. Figures that his set would cost the most. But then again I was also hoping for plenty more insights then what we got so far.

Also almost everyone of you has chosen a different pianist, this is what I wanted dont get me wrong, but it also dosent give me an overwhelming favorite. WHich I guess there never will be one since everyone has there own preference. Is Schnabel's cycle sound quality good enough to choose over the more recent recordings?

Anyone happen to know who Gramophone has rated as the best recordings of the entire cycle. Plus anyone else have any things to say about Kuerti besides Serge. Read so many good things about that guy.

As it stands now its coming down to Brendel(which I'd rather stay clear from cause I already have a CD of him playing the named sonatas, which happens to come right off his set, And his playing is remarkable, but I'd rather not have duplication in my collection, but if he's the overwhelming favorite after a month I'll make the sacrifice), Anyway as I was saying it seems to becoming down to Brendel, Schnabel, Kuerti, and Arrau, yet if no one backs me up with Arrau he will certainly be taken off my list. If his sound qualtiy is really good his set might be the best value cause you get the all the concertos and the Diabelli var. along with the sonatas.

And Rod I will certainly consider Badura-Skoda and his cycle, which by the way I have heard much about him. More of him playing Mozart but I would want a cycle done on the fortepiano as well as one done on a modern piano. Is he hands down the best with the period instrument as I've been told?

Anyway keep the opinions coming. The more the merrier. THanks to all that answer.

Amadeus

P.S. Im an eagerly anticipating the arrival of my Perahia box set of Mozarts piano concertos. Are these recordings as good as everyone seems to making them out to be. DId I make a mistake in buying this Item? Or is it plain and simply as good as it gets.

**Rod** · 12-15-2000, 07:35 AM

Originally posted by amadeus:

And Rod I will certainly consider Badura-Skoda and his cycle, which by the way I have heard much about him. More of him playing Mozart but I would want a cycle done on the fortepiano as well as one done on a modern piano. Is he hands down the best with the period instrument as I've been told?

He has been bettered on period instruments for occasional pieces but overall he is the most accomplished and disciplined. No other individual has recorded the complete set using the fp as far as I am aware. Nevertheless there are still many good recordings of selected B sonatas by others using the fp. I can name Paul Komen and Jos van Immerseel and Malcolm Bilson.

There is still available on DHM a recording by Padura-Skoda of B's 4th fp concerto and the trio concerto. The 4th is an especially superb account, assisted by his most colourful Graf piano (a much weaker sounding instrument was used for the trio, or it may have just been recorded less effectively).

Rod

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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

**chrisg** · 12-16-2000, 03:16 AM

No one has anything to say about Arrau. I read some reviews that his interpretations
were better then Schnabel's. That his slow playing is perfectly suited for Beethoven. But the again I believe his recordings were done in the sixties and I havent got a clue to how good the sound quality is.

If slow playing is your idea of perfectly suited for Beethoven, by all mean go for Arrau. Beautifully introspective, but for my taste, far too laid back. As to the recording quality, most of the anolog of the period, including Philips for Arrau, still puts most of today's DDD to shame. Schnabel could not be more opposite. Blow and go, fast and faster, mangled notes by the bushel, and sound quality that isn't remotely up to par by any modern standard.

So far the favorite seems to be Brendel..

Safe, middle of the road, never bad, yet never anything really special either. His earlier Vox recordings, though not as well recorded as the later Philips, are generally better to my ears.

Is Schnabel's cycle sound quality good enough to choose over the more recent recordings?

Not even close. Putting the 30's mono sound and finger flubs aside, I have never understood what all the fuss is about when it comes to Schnabel. I like his early sonatas, and some of the late ones, but in all of of the best known "named" sonatas, Schnabel does nothing for me. His basic approach is full speed ahead, without a hint of the kind of phrasing that makes a great Beethoven interpreter. Compare any of Richter's recordings, and almost anything of Gilels, and you're in a different league. Tastes vary, so this is IMO of course.

Anyone happen to know who Gramophone has rated as the best recordings of the entire cycle.
Schnabel no doubt.

Plus anyone else have any things to say about Kuerti besides Serge.

Never heard him.

My favorite complete set is Alfredo Perl's, very inexpensive (Arte Nova) and in excellent sound. The Bernard Roberts set mentioned earlier is bland in comparison. I've read a lot of great things about Annie Fisher's cycle (early stereo), but havent' heard it.

For me, the greatest Beethoven pianist is Sviatoslav Richter, with Emil Gilels right behind. These guys play B with fire, passion, and soul. Richter's live Appassionata (Moscow '60) must be heard to be believed - an incredible combination of all of the above; staggering, completely fearless , on the edge playing. Everything Richter touched was distictive, his Beethoven was peerless.

cg

[This message has been edited by chrisg (edited 12-15-2000).]

[This message has been edited by chrisg (edited 12-15-2000).]

**Rod** · 12-17-2000, 02:49 PM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by chrisg:
[B] No one has anything to say about Arrau. I read some reviews that his interpretations
were better then Schnabel's. That his slow playing is perfectly suited for Beethoven. But the again I believe his recordings were done in the sixties and I havent got a clue to how good the sound quality is.

If slow playing is your idea of perfectly suited for Beethoven, by all mean go for Arrau. Beautifully introspective, but for my taste, far too laid back. As to the recording quality, most of the anolog of the period, including Philips for Arrau, still puts most of today's DDD to shame. Schnabel could not be more opposite. Blow and go, fast and faster, mangled notes by the bushel, and sound quality that isn't remotely up to par by any modern standard.

So far the favorite seems to be Brendel..

Safe, middle of the road, never bad, yet never anything really special either. His earlier Vox recordings, though not as well recorded as the later Philips, are generally better to my ears.

Is Schnabel's cycle sound quality good enough to choose over the more recent recordings?

Not even close. Putting the 30's mono sound and finger flubs aside, I have never understood what all the fuss is about when it comes to Schnabel. I like his early sonatas, and some of the late ones, but in all of of the best known "named" sonatas, Schnabel does nothing for me. His basic approach is full speed ahead, without a hint of the kind of phrasing that makes a great Beethoven interpreter. Compare any of Richter's recordings, and almost anything of Gilels, and you're in a different league. Tastes vary, so this is IMO of course.

Anyone happen to know who Gramophone has rated as the best recordings of the entire cycle.
Schnabel no doubt.

Plus anyone else have any things to say about Kuerti besides Serge.

Never heard him.

My favorite complete set is Alfredo Perl's, very inexpensive (Arte Nova) and in excellent sound. The Bernard Roberts set mentioned earlier is bland in comparison. I've read a lot of great things about Annie Fisher's cycle (early stereo), but havent' heard it.

For me, the greatest Beethoven pianist is Sviatoslav Richter, with Emil Gilels right behind. These guys play B with fire, passion, and soul. Richter's live Appassionata (Moscow '60) must be heard to be believed - an incredible combination of all of the above; staggering, completely fearless , on the edge playing. Everything Richter touched was distictive, his Beethoven was peerless.

cg

I've heard alot of all these names and I would agree Arrau is too laid back, Roberts is good in places (Nimbus recordings are done virtually live, ie in one take, so bear this in mind). Fisher is good but lacks polish. Interesting you critisise Schnabel on the same ground I have previously critisised Richter. I heard a rendition by R of op57 that was similarly a high speed rolercoaster ride lacking any expression, the only time I have ever got a headache listening to Beethoven. Whereas I have heard Schnabel that was as sensitive as the insensitive Steinway allows. Gilels is ok but not as dynamic as I would like. I would still rate Badura-Skoda above this lot, though he is assisted by having more appropriate instruments.

About Brendel I agree, his earlier efforts are the best. His last recordings with Rattle of the B concertos are pretty lame to my ears.

Rod

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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

**Serge** · 12-17-2000, 07:38 PM

It appears not Peter or Rod have heard of Anton Kuerti! What a shame! I would recommend giving him a try. He doesn't play period instruments, though, so Rod may not become overly enthused about his style. Kuerti is pretty old now; I suspect he'll retire sometime soon. The cycle I have of his is on the Fleur de Lis/Analekta label; a label that's fairly obscure, I believe.

Perahia is one of the finest pianists I have ever heard. His recent Goldberg Var. CD is glory. You will not go wrong with anything he's released on CD as far as I'm concerned.

I must give credit to Sony Classical. They either have a knack or the funds to sign up many if not most of the finest soloists (incl. Perahia) in the c.m. world today.

**amadeus** · 12-18-2000, 03:35 AM

I found a web page that deals exactly with the question that was asked.
http://www.classical.net/music/comp..../psonatas.html

let me know if you views of the page. and his reccomendations.

**Rod** · 12-18-2000, 09:40 AM

Originally posted by Serge:

Perahia is one of the finest pianists I have ever heard. His recent Goldberg Var. CD is glory. You will not go wrong with anything he's released on CD as far as I'm concerned.

By coincidence I listened to Perahia's cd in Borders recently, alongside another rendition of the variations played by someone else on the harpsicord. The latter served to highlight the cumbersome treatment of the score by the former.

Rod

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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

**Peter** · 12-18-2000, 02:12 PM

Originally posted by Serge:
Kuerti is pretty old now; I suspect he'll retire sometime soon.

Pianists never retire, they merely expire!

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'Man know thyself'

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Who has the best cycle of Beethoven's piano sonatas?

Who has the best cycle of Beethoven's piano sonatas?

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