EU Slammed as Beethoven Anthem Goes Hip-Hop

[Rutradelusasa]

Originally posted by v russo:
I agree with you. It is the same here in the states. It is a western dilemma. Low brow pop-culture has infested everything!

Indeed, I was once in a friend's friend car (a friend of a friend of mine ) and he likes all gangsta crap, he was listening to a rap which had a part of Mozart's Requiem underlineing it, it was the Dies Irae, which kept repeating the same 10 bars or so.
The only way I survived this bull..it was to keep my mind focused on the original Mozart.

Poor ol' composers, will people never grant you rest?

[spaceray]

And God forbid you should ask for them to turn it down or off for they will look you in the eye and inquire"Don't you like music?"

[King Stephen]

Originally posted by Steppenwolf:
Don't we? It seems that wherever I go thesedays I am forced to listen to this sort of stuff. I can't go into a London clothes shop anymore without being blasted with rap noise pollution. I feel it is my human right to be free from this sort of brutal aural rape!
Are you mad at the whole world or just the EU?

[This message has been edited by Steppenwolf (edited January 28, 2004).]

[beetlover]

Originally posted by Rutradelusasa:
Indeed, I was once in a friend's friend car (a friend of a friend of mine ) and he likes all gangsta crap, he was listening to a rap which had a part of Mozart's Requiem underlineing it, it was the Dies Irae, which kept repeating the same 10 bars or so.
The only way I survived this bull..it was to keep my mind focused on the original Mozart.

Poor ol' composers, will people never grant you rest?

I'm sort of interested to know what song that was. Do you remember? I have the Mozart CD, but nothing comes to mind right now. But anyways, I'm sorry you had to go through that I almost cringe listening to "I Can".

[Rob]

This is the musical equivalent to the Talaban's destruction of Bhuddist statuary. At least music exists on a more temporal plane. we've become to expect this sort of nonsense in The States, where we've devalued culture and art to the point of not funding it with federal money. But in Europe? A true shame!

[Pastorali]

Originally posted by Rob:
But in Europe? A true shame!

We do follow the Americans in many ways. Specialy the young generation is focused to the 'american way of life' as it is given them on tv, cinema etc...

regards from "old" europe



[This message has been edited by Pastorali (edited January 29, 2004).]

[Steppenwolf]

Originally posted by Pastorali:
We do follow the Americans in many ways. Specialy the young generation is focused to the 'american way of life' as it is given them on tv, cinema etc...

regards from "old" europe

I would agree that there IS more emphasis on high culture in Europe than in American (in continental, mainland Europe at least). High culture seems most lacking, I'm sorry to say, in those segments of society that have been most Americanised. When Europe most resembles Europe, then high culture is still to be found, however where Europe most resembles America, it becomes harder to find. We can thank America for the gansta rap and hip-hop, another one of their 'cultural' exports.

I draw a distinction between European culture itself - which I really like and feel at home with - and the European Union, which is purely political, and of which I am more sceptical and cynical. It seems to be to be a grab at power by a group of non-democratic beaurocrats who want to strip European nations of their national sovereignty - that is why I am critical of it. And the hip-hop stunt demonstrates that the institution is largely dominated by wishy-washy, hand-wringing, socialist, political correctness-zealots, the types one would normally associated with Holland. I suspect the real reason they wanted Beethoven to go hip-hop was to be politically correct and make sure that 'urban youth' feel included and not discriminated against.

[This message has been edited by Steppenwolf (edited January 29, 2004).]

[BTHVNFAN]

I think it says a lot about not only the people who want to promote the EU. It also says something about those who abuse this piece of music and have not enough fantasy to create something that lasts some time by themselves.

By the way, I think symph. 9 has a lot more to offer us then this 4th movement, agree?

[mrfixit]

Well did the people of britian had a choice when we became part of the USA? I dunno i would rather not be a part of the union or a lap dog of the USA, but if i had to choose, I would go for europe any day of the week.

At least they are closer and havent been waging wars all over the world since the end of the second world war. (Like veitnam Cambodia Iraq Kosovo Korea Most of Latin America indiretly. Aprantly to defend them from themselfs or something.)

If europe acted in the interests of the people instead of the capitalist financiers, maybe it would be worth something. Hopefully it will stop all future wats between europe. Well i supose i am trying to say is even if we stay out of Europe we need to distance ourselfs from the USA as well. Be more independent, but if all future prime minister are like that Craven pretend left wing right wing coward Tony Blair i doubt it will happen.

PS: open up a politics fourm? I would use it myself.

[Peter]

I suggest we try and keep some sort of relevancy to Beethoven in this debate!
Beethoven was a European composer (like most great composers, artists and writers!) so we have an enormous amount to celebrate culturally in Europe. Of course the Europe of Beethoven's day was very different to today, and despite the complaints about democracy in the EU I think we would have had more to complain about in the early 19th century, especially in Vienna which was a police state.

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'Man know thyself'

[King Stephen]

Originally posted by Peter:
I suggest we try and keep some sort of relevancy to Beethoven in this debate!
Beethoven was a European composer (like most great composers, artists and writers!) so we have an enormous amount to celebrate culturally in Europe. Of course the Europe of Beethoven's day was very different to today, and despite the complaints about democracy in the EU I think we would have had more to complain about in the early 19th century, especially in Vienna which was a police state.

Thank you Peter from one who goes to many classical concerts here in the USA without my nose in the air.

[King Stephen]

Originally posted by mrfixit:
Well did the people of britian had a choice when we became part of the USA? I dunno i would rather not be a part of the union or a lap dog of the USA, but if i had to choose, I would go for europe any day of the week.

At least they are closer and havent been waging wars all over the world since the end of the second world war. (Like veitnam Cambodia Iraq Kosovo Korea Most of Latin America indiretly. Aprantly to defend them from themselfs or something.)

If europe acted in the interests of the people instead of the capitalist financiers, maybe it would be worth something. Hopefully it will stop all future wats between europe. Well i supose i am trying to say is even if we stay out of Europe we need to distance ourselfs from the USA as well. Be more independent, but if all future prime minister are like that Craven pretend left wing right wing coward Tony Blair i doubt it will happen.

PS: open up a politics fourm? I would use it myself.

Before you use a political forum, please take an extensive course in history.

[v russo]

Originally posted by King Stephen:
Before you use a political forum, please take an extensive course in history.

amen...


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v russo

[v russo]

Originally posted by Peter:
[Beethoven was a European composer (like most great composers, artists and writers!)
[/B]

now, now enough of this US Bashing! To you I say Charles Ives, Andy Warhol and Robert Frost (to name a few).

And Tony Blair is a great leader and individual. Pray you do not have an attack like we have had on our soil. Something tells me Beethoven would want to eradicate a growing threat to democracy and free people around the world.


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v russo

[Amalie]

Originally posted by Peter:
I suggest we try and keep some sort of relevancy to Beethoven in this debate!
Beethoven was a European composer (like most great composers, artists and writers!) so we have an enormous amount to celebrate culturally in Europe. Of course the Europe of Beethoven's day was very different to today, and despite the complaints about democracy in the EU I think we would have had more to complain about in the early 19th century, especially in Vienna which was a police state.

It is quite true, censorship at least in a nominal sense was quite pronounced in Beethoven's Vienna, but on the whole it had a fairly light touch and did not affect great artists like Beethoven, and we should all be aware that it most certainly was not a police state in the sense that Stalin's Russia was, with people getting the six o'clock knock in the morning and disappearing into a Gulag.
The point about the modern EU is that it is a product that has been founded from its start on fraud and lies, and far from uniting the people of Europe serves only to alienate them in my opinion. Everyone has their own view of course, but no one can persuade me that Beethoven would have been anything other than appalled at the present set up in Brussels.



[This message has been edited by Amalie (edited January 30, 2004).]