beethoven-mozart meeting

[josecarlos]

i got a question to the forum.

Could it be possible beethoven and mozart had the opportunity to talk each other in viena ?

I have read different references in different ways.


Thanks a lot folks.

May the beethoven force with u.

[v russo]

A young Beethoven improvised on the Piano for Mozart in Vienna. When Beethoven was finished, Mozart was to have said to some other guests, "Pay attention to this young man, he will give the world something to talk about one day".

so the story goes....

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v russo

[Peter]

Originally posted by josecarlos:


i got a question to the forum.

Could it be possible beethoven and mozart had the opportunity to talk each other in viena ?

I have read different references in different ways.


Thanks a lot folks.

May the beethoven force with u.

Beethoven first came to Vienna in 1787 with the intention of studying with Mozart - he was unfortunately forced to cut his visit short after only two weeks. However I find it extremely hard to accept that in that time he made no effort to contact Mozart, so it seems probable to me that the two met briefly.

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'Man know thyself'

[Geratlas]

Dear JoseCarlos (JC)
It's said that Beethoven met Mozart during the first brief stay in Wien (1787). He had been sent there by permission of the elector of Bonn with the purpose to study with the very best of his time. Certainly one of these were Mozart himself.[I HAVE HEAR ERASED NOTE CONCERNING VIEW ON MOZART AS TEACHER, WHICH GOT JUSTIFIED CRITICISM. MY MISTAKE!] Nothing can be said to be actual, as so much else about B. during this time (c1787-9). However, we should remind ourselves that Beethoven was esteemed as a second Mozart and was duly compared to the old master by many in the musical society (although not probably by B. himself, it seem). Of course the two could in effect have met each other, anyway, giving there were an interest on the behalf of Mozart. I do not know more than that except: the legendary meeting with Mozart has not its origin in any of the authentic sources presented in our time! Did I help you? -- Hope you get something out of it.
Your Friend
gERATlas ... sENDIng:::

[This message has been edited by Geratlas (edited January 15, 2004).]

[josecarlos]

I just want to thank you for the answers you posted to my question.

I am really learning a lot , and i am just enyoying it.

Jose Carlos.

[SR]

Subject seems to come up often. You sort of have to believe what you want. It is certainly impossible to prove a negative (they didn't meet). There is also no evidence that they did meet. When you figure it out let the rest of us know please.


Steve

[Chaszz]

Originally posted by Geratlas:
...Certainly one of these were Mozart himself but it would be somewhat propostruous of us to think that he should have acted as a tutor at this stage of his career...

Why not? Didn't Haydn give Beethoven lessons
at an advanced stage of HIS career? I had the impression that all composers in those days regarded it as part of their duties to teach the younger generation of musicians.
Even Beethoven had pupils. Was Mozart an exception?

[Steppenwolf]

Originally posted by Chaszz:
Why not? Didn't Haydn give Beethoven lessons
at an advanced stage of HIS career? I had the impression that all composers in those days regarded it as part of their duties to teach the younger generation of musicians.
Even Beethoven had pupils. Was Mozart an exception?

Chaszz, you are right. Mozart was not an exception. He had pupils throughout his career. On his death-bed, for instance, he was being assisted in writing the Requiem by Sussmayr, who was one of his students. So that proves he had students right up until the very end of his life.

Remember Mozart never really 'made it', career-wise. He was always struggling to be recognised and to make money. But even composers who did make it big-time took students. Salieri, for instance, who earned a very handsome salary through his position as Court Composer to the Austrian Emperor, took many pupils, including, at one stage, both the young Beethoven, and later, the young Schubert.



[This message has been edited by Steppenwolf (edited January 14, 2004).]

[spaceray]

In a letter to his father Mozart writes..
"I could not get on at all without pupils,which is a kind of work that is quite uncongenial to me-and of this I have an excellent example here.I could have had two pupils.I went three times to each,but finding one of them out ,I never went back.I will gladly give lessons as a favor,partcularly when I see that my student has a talent,inclination,and anxiety to
learn;but to be obliged to go to a house at a certain hour,or to have to wait at home for a pupil,is what I cannot do,no matter how much money it may bring me in. I find it impossible,so must leave it to those who can do nothing else but play the clavier.I am a composer and was born to be a Kapellmeister.I neither can nor ought to bury the talent for composition with which God in his goodness has so richly endowed me...; and this I should be doing were I to take many pupils,for it is a most unsettling metier, I would rather ,if I may speak plainly,neglect the clavier than composition,for in my case the clavier with me is only a sideline,though, thank God,a very good one.

This from "Mozart Speaks" by Robert Marshall

[Geratlas]

TO MAKE UP FOR MY MISTAKE PREVIOUSLY MADE IN THIS TOPIC.
LvB’s development up to the beginning of 1787 had been sufficient to induce elector at
last to approve and subsidize a journey to Vienna to study with Mozart. No documents
survive relating to the meeting of the two great composers. Ries says that B. regretted
never hearing Mozart play, but Czerny claims that B. did hear him. Most likely then
Beethoven heard Mozart’s playing, perhaps during a theory lesson, but never attended a
performance as such. (Excerpts taken from Beethoven biography) / G.