Anne-Sophie Mutter on tour

[Chris]

I am always wary of young female violinists. It seems the temptation is too great to market them on sex appeal, and even if the playing is spectacular, that kind of undignified, classless nonsense taints the whole thing for me.

[Gurn Blanston]

Originally posted by Chris:
I am always wary of young female violinists. It seems the temptation is too great to market them on sex appeal, and even if the playing is spectacular, that kind of undignified, classless nonsense taints the whole thing for me.

Chris,
I certainly can't disagree with that, and I have seen it done far too often. But if the playing IS spectacular, which it sometimes is, I won't hold it against the lass, especially considering that the artiste is pretty much at the mercy of the marketers. When they sign a contract to record for a label, they frequently give up control of the end product. Of course, they may be entirely in favor of it, who can say? On the other hand, Certain of them cannot help but be sexy, it may not even be intentional, but in the eye of the beholder. As long as they are clad, and not too scantily, there is little we can do except not buy.


------------------
Regards,
Gurn
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
That's my opinion, I may be wrong.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[Amalie]

[quote]Originally posted by Gurn Blanston:
[b]

Originally posted by Amalie:

I have Beethoven's Sonatas for Piano and Violin,by - David Oistrakh...

Amalie,
I would like to find this recording. Who is the pianist? What label is it? I have quite a few Oistrakh recordings, but none of him playing B.
Season's Greetings,


Dear Gurn,
The recording I have is on the Philips label, and the pianist is - Lev Oborin.
A beautifully presented box set of four CD's, collector's edition.
I purchased it a few years ago from Tower Records, London. This is a 1962 recording. I am not sure of the availability now.


For more info, go to page ->
http://www.deccaclassics.com/artists...kh/index.html#

Click on discography - and there it is.

Pretty good huh! .



[This message has been edited by Amalie (edited December 26, 2003).]

[urtextmeister]

Originally posted by Chris:
I am always wary of young female violinists. It seems the temptation is too great to market them on sex appeal, and even if the playing is spectacular, that kind of undignified, classless nonsense taints the whole thing for me.

I know what you mean about this marketing trend. What is this piano trio that looks like a classical music version of Charlie's Angels? The Eroica trio. I saw them for a brief moment on TV once. They played well from what I could hear, though it did look a bit showy--like they are trying to look good while sounding good.
Mutter is also usually shown in those strapless evening gowns. It probably doesn't hurt the sales of her CDs.

HOWEVER, all of this talk sounds dangerously sexist. We could be sitting around the billiards room with our cigars and brandy. "It just doesn't do to have these young fillies playing classical music!" Why do we not look at a recording by some young man and say, he probably just got there on his looks?

Seen from another angle, maybe slick marketing is what classical music needs to survive.

[Chris]

Originally posted by urtextmeister:
HOWEVER, all of this talk sounds dangerously sexist. We could be sitting around the billiards room with our cigars and brandy. "It just doesn't do to have these young fillies playing classical music!"

Actually, it isn't like that at all. (Aside from the fact that I do not smoke or drink,) my point about dignity is gender-neutral. It just happens to apply to females much more because that's the way the world is.

Why do we not look at a recording by some young man and say, he probably just got there on his looks?

Because, as I implied above, that is not likely, because it just doesn't work that way. Maybe it COULD work, but I frankly cannot think of a single example where it has in the past.

Seen from another angle, maybe slick marketing is what classical music needs to survive.

In my opinion, the minute it becomes about anything but excellent music and excellent playing, the battle is lost. Maybe that's a tad dramatic, but I'm sure you understand what I mean.

[Gurn Blanston]

[quote]Originally posted by Amalie:
[b]

Originally posted by Gurn Blanston:

Originally posted by Amalie:

I have Beethoven's Sonatas for Piano and Violin,by - David Oistrakh...

The recording I have is on the Philips label, and the pianist is - Lev Oborin.
A beautifully presented box set of four CD's, collector's edition.

[This message has been edited by Amalie (edited December 26, 2003).]

Amalie,
Thanks very much. I went out to my vendor's site and foound it, just as you say. I also noted another version on a different label that cost twice as much!! Makes one wonder how they can sell a set for $58 US when right next to it is the same set for $29 US?? In any case, there was also a very complimentary review there, so I think it is time to expand my collection a bit.



------------------
Regards,
Gurn
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
That's my opinion, I may be wrong.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[Gurn Blanston]

Originally posted by urtextmeister:
I know what you mean about this marketing trend. What is this piano trio that looks like a classical music version of Charlie's Angels? The Eroica trio. I saw them for a brief moment on TV once. They played well from what I could hear, though it did look a bit showy--like they are trying to look good while sounding good.
Mutter is also usually shown in those strapless evening gowns. It probably doesn't hurt the sales of her CDs.

HOWEVER, all of this talk sounds dangerously sexist. We could be sitting around the billiards room with our cigars and brandy. "It just doesn't do to have these young fillies playing classical music!" Why do we not look at a recording by some young man and say, he probably just got there on his looks?

Seen from another angle, maybe slick marketing is what classical music needs to survive.

Urtextmeister,
Yes, I have seen these Eroica Trio ladies also, and also heard them, they are really first rate. Despite Chris' protestations to the contrary, and despite the fact that I happen to agree with him, speaking as a realist I can't help but think that you are correct. It is a well-known advertising truism that "sex sells", and if it takes beautiful young ladies dressed in provocative fashion to generate new interest, then so be it. We need at some point to face up to the fact that we are a tiny minority of the music buying public, and that if we are not to die out altogether it will take a bit of doing it differently in order to insure our survival. So it goes.



------------------
Regards,
Gurn
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
That's my opinion, I may be wrong.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[Amalie]

[quote]Originally posted by Gurn Blanston:
[b]

Originally posted by Amalie:

Originally posted by Gurn Blanston:

Originally posted by Amalie:

I have Beethoven's Sonatas for Piano and Violin,by - David Oistrakh...

The recording I have is on the Philips label, and the pianist is - Lev Oborin.
A beautifully presented box set of four CD's, collector's edition.

[This message has been edited by Amalie (edited December 26, 2003).]

Amalie,
Thanks very much. I went out to my vendor's site and foound it, just as you say. I also noted another version on a different label that cost twice as much!! Makes one wonder how they can sell a set for $58 US when right next to it is the same set for $29 US?? In any case, there was also a very complimentary review there, so I think it is time to expand my collection a bit.

Gurn,
I am pleased you found it, you might like to post on what you think of this unique recording.
I also have on Duetsche Grammophon, the violin sonatas played by, Yehudi Menuhin conducted by Wilhelm Kempff, and for Christmas my son gave me - Beethoven Overtures, by the Leipzig Gewandhaus Orchestra / Kurt Masur. Philips label.

Toll!

[Gurn Blanston]

Amalie,
Well, I have the set on DG by Argerich and Kremer, I really like it, and am interested to hear other opinions on it. I also have the set by Zukerman and Neikrug on RCA, which is much smoother and beautifully performed, but I don't know that I like it better. Argerich/Kremer have some rough edges that kinda grow on you, and after 75 listenings or so they are my favorites now, but I am always willing to make the sacrifice and listen to yet another set or two of my favorite sonatas. I would really like to get my hands on a set of Heifetz, I think the piano is Richter. Haven't found one yet though. Looking is half the fun.


------------------
Regards,
Gurn
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
That's my opinion, I may be wrong.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[Chaszz]

Why do we not look at a recording by some young man and say, he probably just got there on his looks? - Urtextmeister


Because, as I implied above, that is not likely, because it just doesn't work that way. Maybe it COULD work, but I frankly cannot think of a single example where it has in the past. - Chris

How about Paganini? and Liszt? And perhaps Leonard Bernstein? Van Cliburn? For sheer showmanship, not based on sex appeal, Stokowski and Rachmaninoff? This kind of thing for males has been ceded entirely to the pop music industry. Perhaps it would not be a bad idea for a classical soloist or conductor to attempt it again. Maybe Simon Rattle gives off some of this kind of excitement.


[This message has been edited by Chaszz (edited December 27, 2003).]

[Chris]

I don't think any of those are the same thing at all.

But you are right to point out other things (like showmanship) can be invloved, and I don't think that's good either if it's the focus of the whole thing. Or at least of primary importance.

[Gurn Blanston]

Originally posted by Chris:
I don't think any of those are the same thing at all.

But you are right to point out other things (like showmanship) can be invloved, and I don't think that's good either if it's the focus of the whole thing. Or at least of primary importance.

Chris,
No, not the same thing, this is true, but still, showmanship IS important, and all other things being equal, the best showman will be the most popular. It is an unfortunate truism that to the vast majority of people, our music does not sell itself. I'm not talking about yuo and me here, we already love the music, I'm talking about attracting new people to it, and at the start, most people need a push to get them started. There is a brand of Swiss watches (Raymond Weil) that advertised in the States a year or so ago with a lovely young lady playing the violin, and I actually heard people talking about it, not just her but the tune she was playing. They were interested! Would that have been the case if it was just background music to a voice-over of the merits of the watch? I doubt it.




------------------
Regards,
Gurn
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
That's my opinion, I may be wrong.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[Amalie]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Gurn Blanston:
[B]Amalie,
Well, I have the set on DG by Argerich and Kremer, I really like it, and am interested to hear other opinions on it. I also have the set by Zukerman and Neikrug on RCA, which is much smoother and beautifully performed, but I don't know that I like it better. Argerich/Kremer have some rough edges that kinda grow on you, and after 75 listenings or so they are my favorites now, but I am always willing to make the sacrifice and listen to yet another set or two of my favorite sonatas. I would really like to get my hands on a set of Heifetz, I think the piano is Richter. Haven't found one yet though. Looking is half the fun.


Gurn,
I would also like to get my hands on Heifetz!. There are recordings that have been digitally remastered.
A friend at work presented me with a fascinating book about a female violinist, Sherry Kloss, who studied with, and worked as an a assistant to Jascha Heifetz.
Sherry Kloss's memories of her association with Jascha Heifetz are a vital link between the 'old' musical world and the present. Devoted to passing down a musical tradition, Heifetz said, " An artists is entrusted with something for a brief time. It is an artist's duty to pass it on, like those Greek runners who passed on the lighted torch one to another."
Sherry Kloss passes the Heifetz torch to all of us not only by touching audiences with her own superb artistry but also by opening the door to the traditions of the Heifetz classroom to that we, too, may learn the lessons Heifetz taught.
Sherry Kloss, has in the past, performed violin sonatas by Beethoven and Strauss at the Wigmore Hall, London.

Sherry Kloss is a very engaging person and I wonder whether anyone here has heard her play.


[This message has been edited by Amalie (edited December 27, 2003).]

[Chris]

Originally posted by Gurn Blanston:
Chris,
No, not the same thing, this is true, but still, showmanship IS important, and all other things being equal, the best showman will be the most popular. It is an unfortunate truism that to the vast majority of people, our music does not sell itself. I'm not talking about yuo and me here, we already love the music, I'm talking about attracting new people to it, and at the start, most people need a push to get them started. There is a brand of Swiss watches (Raymond Weil) that advertised in the States a year or so ago with a lovely young lady playing the violin, and I actually heard people talking about it, not just her but the tune she was playing. They were interested! Would that have been the case if it was just background music to a voice-over of the merits of the watch? I doubt it.

Let's just say I have ethical difficulties with the sex-appeal approach. I feel it's a matter of human dignity.

As for the rest - showmanship, etc. - as long as it doesn't interfere with the quality of the music, and doesn't go too far, then fine.

That's another problem with the sex-appeal approach - it opens the door for beautiful, but not musically excellent people to rise above the more talented. Has it happened yet? Possibly. But look at popular music. Who's the last fat, ugly woman you've seen get famous? Momma Cass? She had a great voice. Now look at, say, Britney Spears. Great voice? No. A lot of talent? If it's there, she doesn't appear to be using it. That's the danger I'm concered about. That the actual music takes a back seat.

And really, in my experience, anyone attracted to classical music initially by something other than the music itself does not usually maintain an interest in it for long.

[Gurn Blanston]

It's been a while since we addressed this topic, but I found this news item today from your side of the pond, Chris, and I thought it was on point. You might (but probably not) be amused.
http://iccoventry.icnetwork.co.uk/01...l&siteid=50003



------------------
Regards,
Gurn
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
That's my opinion, I may be wrong.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~