The difficult question

[chopithoven]

As we know, in the finale of the string quartet Op.135, B wrote the words "The difficult question", and composed a passage titled "Muss es sein?" (Must it be?), slow and questioning, followed by lively and affirmative music "Es muss sein!" (It must be!), that extends to most of the rest of the movement.
Should this question and answer really be attributed to the anecdote regarding Dembscher's payment for a subscription?Although B liked jokes, isn't this too trivial for his last quartet, so near his death? Would it be wrong to assume there is a philosopical doubt involved?

[Peter]

Well Beethoven had no idea he was so near death when he wrote it so I don't think we need be too philosophical about it. I think Holz's account regarding Dembscher is quite plausible.

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'Man know thyself'

[Sorrano]

Originally posted by chopithoven:
As we know, in the finale of the string quartet Op.135, B wrote the words "The difficult question", and composed a passage titled "Muss es sein?" (Must it be?), slow and questioning, followed by lively and affirmative music "Es muss sein!" (It must be!), that extends to most of the rest of the movement.
Should this question and answer really be attributed to the anecdote regarding Dembscher's payment for a subscription?Although B liked jokes, isn't this too trivial for his last quartet, so near his death? Would it be wrong to assume there is a philosopical doubt involved?

Sometimes even the most trivial of things can result in great things. Composers get ideas from just about anything that's happening in their environment. I have read (but can't cite the source--it's been too long ago) that the opening notes of the Fifth Symphony came from hearing a bird.

[Amalie]

I have read somewhere - I think it was by John Eliot Gardner who said this - that Beethoven used a theme by Rouget de l'Isle, from his work 'Hymne dithyrambique sur la conjuration de Robespierre' for his Fifth Symphony.
I have never heard anything about this work.
Does anyone know more about this?

Many Thanks
Amalie

[chopithoven]

Originally posted by Sorrano:

Sometimes even the most trivial of things can result in great things.

Surely, and evidently this was the case of this quartet's finale. What is the most extraordinary thing is that there is no rest of the triviality of the Dembscher issue in the music, and the music's atmosphere in the moments where the Es muss sein? motive is played is not similar to the humorous atmosphere of the Es muss sein? canon that we were able to listen long ago in this site, right? What I wanted to know (since I'm going to make an analysis about Op.135) is if I should consider any philosophical doubt in the general layout of the work.

[Peter]

Originally posted by chopithoven:
Surely, and evidently this was the case of this quartet's finale. What is the most extraordinary thing is that there is no rest of the triviality of the Dembscher issue in the music, and the music's atmosphere in the moments where the Es muss sein? motive is played is not similar to the humorous atmosphere of the Es muss sein? canon that we were able to listen long ago in this site, right? What I wanted to know (since I'm going to make an analysis about Op.135) is if I should consider any philosophical doubt in the general layout of the work.

Well it is a question with no definite answer - you can choose to read it as deeply philosophical, Beethoven searching from the depths of his soul after the agonising events of the summer of 1826 - Should it be? Must it be? Must what be? all that you desire, all that commands your thought and weighs upon it, "the difficult decision", the order of destiny the acceptance of life.

Or you can take the view I do that it is Beethovian humour, perhaps tinged with irony - if you compare the Muss es Sein? theme with the Allegro you'll see that the answer Es muss sein simply inverts it.

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'Man know thyself'

[Rod]

Originally posted by Amalie:


I have read somewhere - I think it was by John Eliot Gardner who said this - that Beethoven used a theme by Rouget de l'Isle, from his work 'Hymne dithyrambique sur la conjuration de Robespierre' for his Fifth Symphony.
I have never heard anything about this work.
Does anyone know more about this?

Many Thanks
Amalie

I can confirm Gardiner's theory and have heard the French piece in question, but a very long time ago. I recall noticing some similarity to Beethoven's 5th at the time.

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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin