What would you do for 100,000 hours?

[Beyond Within]

According to one of the many books im reading about classical the greatest pianist of all time practiced 100,000 hours. Thats like, 5 hours a day for 57 years!!!!!!!!!!!

So anyway, im wondering, what is this guy practicing so much? I mean, chopin and Litz were virtuosos by any definition and they didnt practice this much, they seemed like they practiced a lot in childhood up to teenage years then focused on composition. Plus Chopin died somewhat young.

My guess is that its Jazz related, which requires more mental practice than technique-physical practice.

[Chris]

5 or even 8 hours a day is perfectly normal for a professional musician. After all, it's thier job. You spend that much time doing your job every day, don't you? I'd practice 5 hours a day if I had the time.

[This message has been edited by Chris (edited November 23, 2003).]

[urtextmeister]

First of all, who is "the greatest pianist of all time?" I would think that might open for debate.
Some people practice more that others. I think it depends on you personality and your natural musical gifts. Also maybe what a perfectionist you are.
What is amazing to me is pianists who practiced very little. Rubinstein did almost no practicing until he was 50 years old (according to his autobio). I have heard that Brendel rarely practices. He just goes into a room and thinks about it.
Gieseking, by all accounts, never practiced. He just learned a piece, never forgot it and never had to practice it. I heard of a master class in which he asked the student to play the Goldberg variations. The student said, "But Maestro! I haven't played that in over a year." "So," replied Gieseking. "Concentrate."
Hmmm. Easy for him to say. Some of us need a bit of muscle memory besides sheer mental effort.

[Pastorali]

Anne-Sophie Mutter practices each day for at least five hours on her violin. (she said last year in an interview)

[This message has been edited by Pastorali (edited November 23, 2003).]

[beetlover]

Ooh I'm so envious of people like that I just started piano about a year ago. Anyways it's interesting that I'd stumble on this post because yesterday I bought a Vladimir Horowitz CD and it said he hardly ever practiced. He did it in his head or something. That surprised me.

[Sophia]

I just want to express my indescribable contempt towards any attempt to portray artists (pianists for instance) as guiness record holders. I don't give a damn if Richter studied 5 hours or 15 minutes. He is Richter. And no matter how many hours I study, I will never be like him, or like hundreds of others that are recognised as great pianists. Quality, and not quantity, matters. What's with these obsessions about the "BEST composer" the "MOST difficult instrument","the GREATEST pianist that ever lived", " the #1 of all time"....? Grow up! This is art we are talking about, not how many hours one can keep a football in the air. The second is mere stupidity...And to think they 've got a whole book filled with these ....."achievements"!

[beetlover]

Originally posted by Sophia:
I just want to express my indescribable contempt towards any attempt to portray artists (pianists for instance) as guiness record holders. I don't give a damn if Richter studied 5 hours or 15 minutes. He is Richter. And no matter how many hours I study, I will never be like him, or like hundreds of others that are recognised as great pianists. Quality, and not quantity, matters. What's with these obsessions about the "BEST composer" the "MOST difficult instrument","the GREATEST pianist that ever lived", " the #1 of all time"....? Grow up! This is art we are talking about, not how many hours one can keep a football in the air. The second is mere stupidity...And to think they 've got a whole book filled with these ....."achievements"!

OK! It's not an obsession, but I think it's interesting to know how other people study music. I don't think someone is instantly better if they only practice for a short amount of time. Goodness, you didn't have to get so mad about it.

[urtextmeister]

Sophia,

I agree with you that music should not be about who is the greatest or the fastest or most accurate. Unfortunately, however, the doors to a career in classical music are often opened by contests. Students often lose sight of the goal of enriching lives with musical experience and see only the goal of winning the big contest.

Those of us in education need to stress that being "the winner" is not important. Making music that moves other people should be its own reward.

Having said that, I think people will always be fascinated by numbers. When people find out I am a pianist they always ask, "how many hours a day do you practice?" and "at what age did you start?"

[spaceray]

Originally posted by urtextmeister:

When people find out I am a pianist they always ask, "how many hours a day do you practice?" and "at what age did you start?"

[/B]

Urtextmiester,
How many hours a day do you practice?
What age were you when you began?
What's your practice routine,is it varied?
Do you have a nice piano to play on?

[Sophia]

Originally posted by beetlover:
OK! It's not an obsession, but I think it's interesting to know how other people study music.

Exactly, beetlover: we need to know HOW a pianist studies, and I believe that this may be a very helpful piece of information to be exchanged between pianists. But the amount of time spent on studying does not show the way one studies, rather than simply how many hours he spends doing it. I, for instance, tend to change the way I study many times especially the past 3-4 years. Now it seems that I can do a lot more in less time.

And, yes, I do believe that this a matter worthy of my anger and contempt, and urtextmeister post has very nicely given the reasons for this contempt. I just believe that everyone, teachers, listeners, students, amateur instrumentalists etc, etc... must stress the one thing that is important: music as art and not as show. Art is not a circus. We shoudln't care if a 3-year-old can play Rachmaninoff (because surely he/she can't)! All these are simply there to impress people that are impressed apparently easily.

Anyway, since english is not my native language, I find it a bit hard to express myself with clarity, but I think that most of you will understand what I am basically saying.

[urtextmeister]

Spaceray,

I practice from ten minutes a day to maybe three hours at the most.

I was about 12 when I started lessons in earnest.

My practice routine...well I don't really have one. I don't do any scales or etudes or anything like that. If I find a passage that is difficult for me, I isolate it and make it into a sort of etude. For the past 15 years or so, I have been pretty much a utility pianist. It is my job to do what is needed WHEN it is needed. That means that sometimes I have a large pile of music to learn in a couple days. I need to either read it or learn it very quickly. Sometimes even modern and contemporary works. I'm sure this affects my practice routine. It is probably very different for someone with more of a solo career.

Sophia, what is your practice routine/philosophy? By the way, your English is impeccable. You are more articulate than most native speakers.

[Sorrano]

Originally posted by Sophia:
Exactly, beetlover: we need to know HOW a pianist studies, and I believe that this may be a very helpful piece of information to be exchanged between pianists. But the amount of time spent on studying does not show the way one studies, rather than simply how many hours he spends doing it. I, for instance, tend to change the way I study many times especially the past 3-4 years. Now it seems that I can do a lot more in less time.

I have been told that perfect practice is the best way. Practice everything slowly enough that one can play the part correctly to begin with, then speed it up. I wish I had more time to spend practicing since I love to play the piano.

[beetlover]

Originally posted by Sophia:
I just believe that everyone, teachers, listeners, students, amateur instrumentalists etc, etc... must stress the one thing that is important: music as art and not as show.

Hmm, yeah, I understand what you are talking about. I also agree with urtextmeister about the fascination with numbers thing.


[This message has been edited by beetlover (edited December 05, 2003).]

[Sophia]

Urtextmeister,

Thank you for your kind words about my english.

My practice routine/philosophy? Well, to tell you the truth I am not a professional pianist and never will be. I just don't have the technique. I am just studying now for my diploma, but I live in a country where everyone can get a piano diploma (I live in Greece). Anyway, my practice routine depends on how difficult a piece is. For a Beethoven sonata like op.109 or 110 I would definately need at least 2 weeks to learn it. For a Beethoven sonata like Appassionata, I would say that I would NEVER be able to play it acceptibly... So you see, when you don't have what it takes (technicque-wise), you just can't play certain stuff.

And also, I recently changed my method of studying. Now I study the score first, and I play it later. Sometimes I learn something by heart first (away from the piano), and then I start practicing it on the keyboard. If there is time, this is a very good method, because you insure that you don't learn mechanically but intellectually. It is also very good for ear training exercise (you know, to be able to to hear the music without hearing it externally).

[urtextmeister]

Sophia,

By an amazing coincidence, I am also experimenting with this method of learning a piece away from the keyboard. Actually, I find takes less time. I can learn a piece while waiting for my daughter's ballet class to finish or whenever I have a little extra time on my hands. I just carry the score around with me every place I go and glance it casually.
Then, when I actually have time to practice, I can sit down in my studio and just play the piece for memory.

Most people learn a piece mostly through muscle memory. Their fingers take over and do familiar patterns. This is coming at it from the other direction.

My main project right now is the Chopin Barcarolle. It is taking me a long time. Mostly because it is harmonically very complex. I find that once I have learned it mentally, I still need to physically play it quite a bit before I am confident.

I learned Schumann's Carnaval with this method a few years ago and it was quite successful.

I believe more and more that piano playing is about 90 percent mental. Even technique is largely applying your brain--visualizing, remembering a sensation, picturing a sound you want in your head...

I would think that if you can play opus 109 and 110 you could play 57. I don't know. I have only poked around at all three of those sonatas. Never performed them.