ULTIMATE Beethoven concert needs help!

[PDG]

The idea of a huge Beethoven event is a fantastic one, and Euphony`s enthusiasm, touchingly borne out of his visit to the master`s grave, is to be admired; depressingly though, I can only agree with what Peter and Michael have said.

The biggest problem would surely be getting the thing off the ground - the financial backing required would be colossal, millions of dollars in the case of touring with the project. Backers would (as backers do) consider the viability of the concept, its SALEABILITY, potential merchandising, global media interest, etc.; and in all areas bar media interest, I don`t see them looking at the idea as a winning one.

The whole idea is to get people (not just the young - if parents become hooked, the kids will pick it up from them) interested in Beethoven, but sadly, he is too far removed from the real world for most people; we don`t even have a photo of him, just (as they would be perceived) old, musky paintings of a grumpy-looking, deaf, old man. So the `image` of this event would be focused on the performers rather than the music - they would be the centre of attention, at the expense of the music.

As far as the music is concerned, I completely agree with what has already been said, namely that in this frenetically-paced world of ours, people have neither the inclination, nor the attention span, to give it a chance. Most people don`t have the concentration levels, anyway; and if concentration were not needed with the great classical music, then it wouldn`t be `great`.

Perhaps a better idea might be a musical based on Beethoven; but, even then, the setting-up and running costs would be huge. I think this idea is more feasible than an all-encompassing tour - when one considers the money made by the bilge that Lloyd Webber inflicts on us, I think a Beethoven musical would definitely succeed. Although musicals-attending crowds are generally cliquey, they are not as far removed from the musical thought processes of the public as are classical music lovers, and this `bridging` idea, if you like, taking classical music down a few intellectual steps, while keeping it LEAGUES above the abysmal level of pop music, might just be the `third way`, mentioned earlier, by Peter.

However things pan out, Euphony and Serge, the very best of luck; if it doesn`t work out, we will still applaud you.

God speed.

[Peter]

Originally posted by PDG:
we don`t even have a photo of him, just (as they would be perceived) old, musky paintings of a grumpy-looking, deaf, old man.


Perhaps a better idea might be a musical based on Beethoven; but, even then, the setting-up and running costs would be huge. I think this idea is more feasible than an all-encompassing tour - when one considers the money made by the bilge that Lloyd Webber inflicts on us, I think a Beethoven musical would definitely succeed. Although musicals-attending crowds are generally cliquey, they are not as far removed from the musical thought processes of the public as are classical music lovers, and this `bridging` idea, if you like, taking classical music down a few intellectual steps, while keeping it LEAGUES above the abysmal level of pop music, might just be the `third way`, mentioned earlier, by Peter.

The image of Beethoven's appearance in most peoples minds (if they have an image at all) is from his late years with wild unkempt hair, which is why on the home page of this site I chose a picture of him as a young man in which he actually looks attractive. I bet many young people have been surprised that he was actually young once !

The musical idea, I think is a good one, as was the play and film Amadeus for Mozart. Anyone who has read my comments on the film 'Immortal beloved' will hopefully appreciate after reading this thread why I was so against it (apart from being factually flawed) - It failed in its main purpose to attract young people to Beethoven's music because it simply reinforced the stereo types of a miserable old man.

Euphony and Serge I suggest what would really help would be a first class Beethoven film - I know John Suchet is enthusiastic about this also (though he wants his brother David Suchet of Poirot fame to play Beethoven !). The film would need to show the whole of B's life not just the last years as in I.B. - You need a first class cast and above all you need humour - there must be moments of light relief in a serious film - Amadeus recognised this. There are many highly amusing events in B's life which should be shown - this gives a balance to the tragic events in his life and will make the man , the film and consequently his music far more appealing. It must also be as factual as possible - we don't want the film's credibility destroyed by a load of totally fictitious events.

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'Man know thyself'

[This message has been edited by Peter (edited 12-06-2000).]

[Serge]

You may be onto something, Peter! Worthy of consideration.

[euphony131]

Hi all,

I wanted to give an update thus far on my plans for The Beethoven World Tour. I have submitted my proposal to Ira Brilliant of "Beethoven's Hair" fame and founder of the American Beethoven Society. I have contacted a Profession Production Company with experience in staging and marketing such lavish shows. The man I spoke to was in fact very excited at the idea and seemed to think it would be a dream project: "No one's ever done anything like it before!" All the young people (25 and younger) I have spoken to have expressed enthusiasm for such a "rad" show: "Now that's a classical concert I'll go see!"

The truth of the matter is that Classical Music as a Recording industry is facing obliteration. According to the latest stats, new releases of symphonic works in America struggle to achieve even 1,000 sales in a year. Meanwhile, "stars" like Madonna and Marilyn Manson can sell over a million copies in ONE WEEK. Even illustrious conductors like John Elliot Gardiner, Bernard Haitink and Andre Previn find themselves without contracts. No recording company including DG, EMI and Sony Classics wants to sign them -- their records don't sell. And the cutbacks are increasing exponentially -- EMI now releases only 35 new classical recordings a year; they used to release 120.

It would not be an exaggeration to say Classical Recordings will become extinct within 10 years time. What can possibly revert the crisis? What can change the attitudes of the young? What will finally turn Classical Music into a mainstay of public life? I truly feel only a concert such as I've described can do it. Some purists criticize the idea, that it somehow cheapens and degrades the music. I maintain, however, that desparate times call for desparate measures and so long as the music is played honestly (no electronic instruments, amplifiers, etc.) and with passion than there's nothing "horrid" about it.

We are facing extinction. Are we to do nothing at all, but stay on our solemn course hoping against hope that the End will not come? It is not a matter of lifting our haughty noses and saying "Humbug." It is simply a matter of survival at this point. I love Beethoven and this is my way of honoring him -- by bringing his music to the masses, to make others LISTEN. If it takes strobe lights and lightening bolts to do it than so be it.

We can not assume that if a 19th composer were alive today he would not use such effects for his own work. After all, has any one ever seen a Wagner opera? Talk about effects! Again, so long as the music itself is pure than all other extraneous effects should be fair game.

I will continue with this. Perhaps, a time will come when I'll have to quit, when every option has been exhausted, when NO ONE will listen. Till then I will do what I can. I'd love to hear from others about this, their thoughts, particularly from any of you orchestral players out there. And again I invite anyone who is interested and willing to join me in my venture.

Thank you all for your time!

[Rod]

Originally posted by euphony131:
Hi all,

The truth of the matter is that Classical Music as a Recording industry is facing obliteration. According to the latest stats, new releases of symphonic works in America struggle to achieve even 1,000 sales in a year.

Which begs the question why the hell do they continue to release these recordings? How many versions of the 5th do we need?

Originally posted by euphony131:

Meanwhile, "stars" like Madonna and Marilyn Manson can sell over a million copies in ONE WEEK. Even illustrious conductors like John Elliot Gardiner, Bernard Haitink and Andre Previn find themselves without contracts. No recording company including DG, EMI and Sony Classics wants to sign them -- their records don't sell. And the cutbacks are increasing exponentially -- EMI now releases only 35 new classical recordings a year; they used to release 120.

I wouldn't sign them either, even Gardiner.

Originally posted by euphony131:

It would not be an exaggeration to say Classical Recordings will become extinct within 10 years time. What can possibly revert the crisis? What can change the attitudes of the young? What will finally turn Classical Music into a mainstay of public life? I truly feel only a concert such as I've described can do it. Some purists criticize the idea, that it somehow cheapens and degrades the music. I maintain, however, that desparate times call for desparate measures and so long as the music is played honestly (no electronic instruments, amplifiers, etc.) and with passion than there's nothing "horrid" about it.

There's no point trying to popularise a 'high brow' past-time. Most performances are so lame they don't justify themselves anyway, shoving them through a PA would only make them even worse. I hardly ever go to concerts any more myself never mind the humble masses!

Originally posted by euphony131:

We are facing extinction. Are we to do nothing at all, but stay on our solemn course hoping against hope that the End will not come? It is not a matter of lifting our haughty noses and saying "Humbug." It is simply a matter of survival at this point. I love Beethoven and this is my way of honoring him -- by bringing his music to the masses, to make others LISTEN. If it takes strobe lights and lightening bolts to do it than so be it.

A lot of 'classical' music deserves to be extinct in my opinion, but people who have a natural tendancy to take music seriously will sooner or later take up the genre without assistance. People for whom music is not a big deal will NEVER get into Beethoven, under any circumstances.

Originally posted by euphony131:

We can not assume that if a 19th composer were alive today he would not use such effects for his own work. After all, has any one ever seen a Wagner opera? Talk about effects! Again, so long as the music itself is pure than all other extraneous effects should be fair game.

Forget Wagner, it was the Baroque opera that made the most use of effects - bizarre machinery, and all kinds of animals would find their way on stage!

Originally posted by euphony131:

I will continue with this. Perhaps, a time will come when I'll have to quit, when every option has been exhausted, when NO ONE will listen. Till then I will do what I can. I'd love to hear from others about this, their thoughts, particularly from any of you orchestral players out there. And again I invite anyone who is interested and willing to join me in my venture.

Thank you all for your time!

I can't really understand your motivation, in fact if everyone was into Beethoven I would start to get suspicious about my own standard of taste! If you are worried about being an unemployed musician, fair enough, but if you want to be a rich one you should forget classical music and start sampling dance tracks for Madonna.

Rod



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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[euphony131]

Rod,

With all due respect, I am flabbergasted by some of your remarks. You say we are better off without the likes of Gardiner, Haitink and Previn. Can you honestly say that Gardiner's interpretations of Bach, for instance, are without any merit? Certainly not every conductor can be on the mark every time, but those three mentioned HAVE produced some incredible recordings. Perhaps your standards are so high that no human can hope to reach them? In which case, I take it you do not listen to recordings but prefer to imagine the sound in your mind? I'm not being sarcastic, but am asking a sincere question here.

"Which begs the question why the hell do they continue to release these recordings? How many versions of the 5th do we need?"

I don't think it's just a matter of over-sampling the 5th. The dilemma pertains to ALL of classical music -- whether new, old or in between. The ENTIRE medium of Classical Music is facing extinction. The very notion of someone playing the violin or even bothering to examine a score may come to an end.

"There's no point trying to popularise a 'high brow' past-time. Most performances are so lame they don't justify themselves anyway, shoving them through a PA would only make them even worse. I hardly ever go to concerts any more myself never mind the humble masses!"

I'm sorry you can not enjoy concerts anymore, however don't you think this may be due to a lack of vigor on part of many orchestras? Lack of vigor is not the same as lack of talent. And certainly not all performers are as "lame" as you describe. What I want to do is re-introduce the "Romantic" flair of Classical Music, to give it back its rightful and impassioned charisma. Let's prove this music isn't "lame." This does not mean the use of a "PA," the sound will be PURE, only effects such as lighting and choreography will be added.

The concept is like this: say you have an original masterpiece by Matisse, something you'd want to frame in the best way possible. I simply want to provide a lavish frame so passers-bys will stop and take notice of a work of art. There is nothing wrong with the painting, it is already a masterpiece, the idea of altering it would be unthinkable. Just "frame" it correctly and you've got a whole new legion fans.

"A lot of 'classical' music deserves to be extinct in my opinion, but people who have a natural tendancy to take music seriously will sooner or later take up the genre without assistance. People for whom music is not a big deal will NEVER get into Beethoven, under any circumstances."

Sorry, but I'd argue that even a minor 19th century composer eclipses the talent of today's "pop mega-stars" and all their superficiality. If a lot of Classical Music "deserves to be extinct" than I say start with burning all those trashy Pop records first.

Now I agree that people who are not into any type of music to begin with may be less partial to a Beethoven Tour; however can you deny the number of converts created each day after seeing or hearing something (anything) spectacular? Besides the number of people who are not into Music of any kind is very small compared to those who are.

"Forget Wagner, it was the Baroque opera that made the most use of effects - bizarre machinery, and all kinds of animals would find their way on stage!"

Well, that's just more validation of using the effects I've already outlined, isn't it.

"I can't really understand your motivation, in fact if everyone was into Beethoven I would start to get suspicious about my own standard of taste! If you are worried about being an unemployed musician, fair enough, but if you want to be a rich one you should forget classical music and start sampling dance tracks for Madonna."

My motivation is not soley driven by money. Obviously if all I cared about was profit than I wouldn't have chosen Beethoven to promote. I do not worry about being an "unemployed musician," I have a job and I am not a musician. Again, this is my way of paying homage to the Maestro, by making the world take notice. I think we all have an innate desire to see our passions shared by others (at least I do). Plus I hate to see Classical Music being flushed away and forgotten. Yes, this entails the need for profits, after all how else will investors be enticed? But to say that's all I cared about is money is wholly unfair.

I think it strange you would question your own taste if a larger following of Beethoven occurred. Are you telling me you only listen to Beethoven because it is so rarefied and mysterious to most people? I feel it is this sort of "elitist" attitude that has kept Classical Music and its potential buried. Have we all became so comfortable in being marginalized? Only when the last note has been played, and the last symphony hall shuts down, only then might we realize what COULD'VE been.

Quite honestly Rod, I sense a lot of bitterness in your post. Are you perhaps a former orchestral player who was once mired by politics? Forgive my presumptousness, but please understand I only want to REVIVE what has been lost.

[Peter]

I sympathise with your sentiments. Classical music is indeed in real danger of extinction, and it is largely this trashy pop commercialisation that is responsible - a whole generation brain-washed into a mind numbing state of non-thought, where all that is required is to be as drunk and as high as possible for maximum effect! - Most of this generation do not just dislike Classical music, they really hate it, because it requires thought. I hate to be so cynical about things, but I think I'm only stating the situation as it is - I would like to believe that your ideas really would work Euphony, but as I've said in earlier posts on this subject, I think the rot has gone too deep.
The BBC here in the UK is no help either - I can't recall the last time I saw a Beethoven performance on tv. On the rare occasions they do broadcast a 'classical' work , it's usually something guaranteed to turn people off classical music for life, such as a premiere of Harrison-Birtwhistle or Peter Maxwell Davies - No wonder people turn off in their millions! Beethoven and first rate classical music in general does not get a decent coverage, and that is where any change needs to begin.

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'Man know thyself'

[PDG]

Euphony, thanks for the update - I was about to post the enquiry. I just wanted to say keep up the good work; your enthusiasm is to be admired. I`m sure it`s okay for me to say that we are all behind you 100%, although a certain scepticism is inevitable given the grand nature of your idea.

Keep us posted

[Rod]

Originally posted by euphony131:
Rod,

With all due respect, I am flabbergasted by some of your remarks. You say we are better off without the likes of Gardiner, Haitink and Previn. Can you honestly say that Gardiner's interpretations of Bach, for instance, are without any merit? Certainly not every conductor can be on the mark every time, but those three mentioned HAVE produced some incredible recordings. Perhaps your standards are so high that no human can hope to reach them? In which case, I take it you do not listen to recordings but prefer to imagine the sound in your mind? I'm not being sarcastic, but am asking a sincere question here.

I don't know about his Bach recordings, but I have his Beethoven and Handel recordings. The Handel is adequate, the Beethoven Masses were promising, but with the symphonies he messed up, it was a missed opportunity and the boxed set is gathering dust at my house. He is not bad, but he is not the golden boy he's made out to be - certainly not the best 'authentic' conductor.

Originally posted by euphony131:

I don't think it's just a matter of over-sampling the 5th. The dilemma pertains to ALL of classical music -- whether new, old or in between. The ENTIRE medium of Classical Music is facing extinction. The very notion of someone playing the violin or even bothering to examine a score may come to an end.

It will survive. But the point you make about reading the score is interesting. because I would like performers of Beethoven at least to actually start doing this!

Originally posted by euphony131:

I'm sorry you can not enjoy concerts anymore, however don't you think this may be due to a lack of vigor on part of many orchestras? Lack of vigor is not the same as lack of talent. And certainly not all performers are as "lame" as you describe. What I want to do is re-introduce the "Romantic" flair of Classical Music, to give it back its rightful and impassioned charisma. Let's prove this music isn't "lame." This does not mean the use of a "PA," the sound will be PURE, only effects such as lighting and choreography will be added.

I like authentic Beethoven playing on authentic instruments, it is the existing over abundance of post-war brand romanticism that is the main problem!

Originally posted by euphony131:

The concept is like this: say you have an original masterpiece by Matisse, something you'd want to frame in the best way possible. I simply want to provide a lavish frame so passers-bys will stop and take notice of a work of art. There is nothing wrong with the painting, it is already a masterpiece, the idea of altering it would be unthinkable. Just "frame" it correctly and you've got a whole new legion fans.

Fair enough, but what are you going to do to save the chamber music? I think the solution lies more with education. In my young days all my mates wanted to play an instrument of some sort, which got them involved eventually with more serious music, but the kids don't now as pop music is no longer instrumental music in the conventional sence, which leaves only schools. My 9 year old daughter plays the recorder pretty well thanks to school lessons, and she now 'likes' Handel because he wrote alot of good recorder music (a rarity) and she tries to play along.

Originally posted by euphony131:

Sorry, but I'd argue that even a minor 19th century composer eclipses the talent of today's "pop mega-stars" and all their superficiality. If a lot of Classical Music "deserves to be extinct" than I say start with burning all those trashy Pop records first.

Now I agree that people who are not into any type of music to begin with may be less partial to a Beethoven Tour; however can you deny the number of converts created each day after seeing or hearing something (anything) spectacular? Besides the number of people who are not into Music of any kind is very small compared to those who are.

Trashing pop is not the solution, teenagers are never going to go to Beethoven raves! I bought pop but it didn't prevent me from getting into Beethoven.

Originally posted by euphony131:

"Forget Wagner, it was the Baroque opera that made the most use of effects - bizarre machinery, and all kinds of animals would find their way on stage!"

Well, that's just more validation of using the effects I've already outlined, isn't it.

And Baroque opera died a death in it's own lifetime, even Handel's masterpieces were not sufficient for audiences as tastes and culture changed. Yet they are undergoing a revival today (thanks to the authentic movement). It's the culture that needs to be change, you'll probably just have to wait for it, assisted by playing the music as it was intended to be heard and not some convenient transcription.

Originally posted by euphony131:

But to say that's all I cared about is money is wholly unfair.
I think it strange you would question your own taste if a larger following of Beethoven occurred. Are you telling me you only listen to Beethoven because it is so rarefied and mysterious to most people? I feel it is this sort of "elitist" attitude that has kept Classical Music and its potential buried. Have we all became so comfortable in being marginalized? Only when the last note has been played, and the last symphony hall shuts down, only then might we realize what COULD'VE been.

I didn't mean that I thought that you were only interested in money, but rather that the average classical performer will never be rich! My attitude is not elitist, quite the opposite, I never belittle the pop industry in relation to classical! Just todays popular culture mitigates against being interested in serious music more so than in the past, thus it would surprise me if everyone suddenly got into it today, and I would have to check that I had not latently been buying 'Garage' music.

Originally posted by euphony131:

Quite honestly Rod, I sense a lot of bitterness in your post. Are you perhaps a former orchestral player who was once mired by politics? Forgive my presumptousness, but please understand I only want to REVIVE what has been lost.

I'm a frustrated guitar player. But I am perhaps bitter because the factors which I regard to be the problem are not catered for in your solution. Not that I am actually bitter, I've never been part of the classical 'club' in the first place. 'I'd never want to join the kind of club that would have a guy like me as a member!'

Rod

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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[amadeus]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by ~Leslie:


Disney addressed this audiovisual medium with the animated movie "Fantasia", in an attempt to educate children in the classical realm by invoking memorable images and storylines in connection with the music.
By doing so, I would have to say their effort was a success, and because of this film, untold generations of children recognize the music when heard, as it triggers those visual associations.


Leslie I couldn't even begin to tell you, how right you are. In fact its pretty much my story. I'm 20 years old, started to get into classical music about 3 years ago. At the time I was probably lookin at CM as an alternative to the majority of the crap that is being produced today.(and thats being kind) But when I first started listening to Beethoven and Mozart I immediately made the connection between the music and my childhood. I've seen so many cartoons that have contained CM, that I immediately connected with the music that I heard later in life. Im saying that when I picked up the records three years ago I was like "ohh! I know this" Then knowing that I liked it once (cause I was a cartoon nut)I gave it a real opportunity to become my choice of music. Then a few hundred dollars later, and now you have an obsessed fan. Who cant seem to get enough of it. And am in the myst of trying to convert some friends, but have few takers so far.

I feel I owe a great deal for the discovery of my love for CM to Disney. Besides the waves crashing in "Fantasia" to the sounds of the fifth, with out a doubt my most recalled cartoon image in my head is portrait of Dawn with a deer in the image, the begins to rise, other wildlife awaking, all to the sounds of the very appropriate Sixth symphony. Possibly from Bambi, I dont know, I never really liked Bambi to see it more then once. And if it is, it just goes to show you how powerful that image was.

Anyway I dont think they have CM in todays cartoons nearly as much as they did. Not that I would know, gave up cartoons along time ago, but judging from the images I see while flipping through the TV I dont think it would be appropriate for the music to even be played. It wouldnt coincide with the imagery or the story. However Im not one to shy away from a big time production like Lion King, Aladdin, Price of Egypt to name a few, and in the big time productions there will usually be some CM being played. Hopefully this is reaching out to children like it did for me.

But like you pointed out before, Fantasia was the ultimate, the whole movie was sorrounded by classical music.(CM) And it was a masterpeice between the music and imagery.

[~Leslie]

Amadeus, Nice name. I'm no longer looking at yr post now, but I think I saw a light at the end of the tunnel.........you know, the dark abyss of modern day music industry commercialism? <g>

The only reason Fantasia is fresh in my mind is because I had a child, and used that video as a tool for educational purposes.

Alas, it did no good, for all the outstanding music he heard in utero and onward, my boy still digs Limp Bisket, Korn, and Eminen.

One cartoon I distinctly remember from years ago, was one of Schubert, attempting to finish the Unfinished. It was hysterical. He lived in an apartment flat, and he couldn't concentrate because a road construction crew was making a racket below his window.

So much classical was utilized in those cartoons. Ah the good ol days. Probably because Warner didn't have to pay any royalties for them. Thanks for the stroll down memory lane. : ) ~Les

[Mako]

Hiya all,

I totally agree that the image of cm needs to be revitalised. The first and easiest step in this process would have to be to take the concerts out of the funeral parlour, i.e. black & white suits and dresses, everyone having to be quiet for 90% of the time incase the musicians get distracted, musicians themselves forbidden to move or make a sound unless it's in the score etc. Any wonder it's seen as boring and stale.

Why do the "modern" pop concerts get so much attention? -It's visually and aurally stimulating by colour, movement and volume, -relaxed so that the audience can cheer, applaud etc when they want to, -the bands have personality and a sence of apparent rebel in them that the teenagers themselves feel they need to identify with and express within themselves.

An audio visual component in a concert would be interesting but how many classical musicians do you know of today that have the ability to concentrate when someone in the audience so much as sneezes? Until you can change that aspect of the image of cm, I'm afraid you are fighting an uphill battle.

Also where can you go to hear cm being played? Maybe a concert hall in main cities? Contrast that with rock/pop music which can be heard in almost any pub, club and arena in any town on any night of the week. Familiarity and accessability are a major component in the success of any musical genre, sport or past time I can think of.

Thanks for listening.


[This message has been edited by Mako (edited 01-12-2001).]

[euphony131]

Mako,

That's exactly what I'm talking about! Stuffy stodginess is such a turn off! Especially for the Young!

I see some others stressing "education" as the key, that may be the "ideal" solution but it's far from practical. Plus it only re-enforces the "elitist" idea that one has to be super-"brainy" to enjoy Classical music.

When I first came to Beethoven at 15, I couldn't tell you what Adagio meant nor did I even know a traditional symphony contained four movements. But that didn't stop me from listening and loving every bit of it! Music after all is foremost a SENSUAL experience, not a cerebral one per se.

It's a great turn-off for the lay-person to have to "figure out" music, better to let them FEEL it first. Besides which, how many teenagers really want to bury their noses in some dry text-book or listen to some aging pedant sprout off about the differences in 2/4 meter versus 7/8? I sure as heck didn't when I was 15!

The real key I feel is to simply show the young that Classical Music -- a symphonic work -- can be just as exciting and "cool" as any rock concert. Then with their interest piqued they'll seek out more and learn about it naturally: "Wow, that Beethoven concert was radical! What other kinds of Classical is out there?!" Eventually they'll read and maybe even get into chamber works, and so on.

After all, is not Classical Music some of the most passionate music ever created? Let's try and PROJECT that passion upon the stage -- that's all I'm arguing for.

We shouldn't under-estimate the Young. They are naturally inquisitive. We need only to give them something to get curious about.

[Peter]

Originally posted by euphony131:

The real key I feel is to simply show the young that Classical Music -- a symphonic work -- can be just as exciting and "cool" as any rock concert.

After all, is not Classical Music some of the most passionate music ever created? Let's try and PROJECT that passion upon the stage -- that's all I'm arguing for.

A Classical concert is infinitely more exciting than a rock concert! - I've been to both, but only from a Classical concert have I had that feeling of elation and over-whelming joy, which is not surprising because the music is far greater and reaches parts that no other music can!

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'Man know thyself'

[BP]

The reason for silence, Mako, is two-fold; first, the audience won't be able to concentrate on the music with people nearby gabbing about the recent things, and second being that the very quiet passages would never be heard period. If, for example, Bruckner were subjected to this treatment, half his symphony would be unheard because they're so quiet. CM is not something that can neccessarily be digested in one sitting. You must be willing to give your ears over to it. I do not believe this is an elitist attitude, anyone can do it, you don't have to be specifically educated.

The best way to solve this would be to start our own pubs or whatever, where nothing but Beethoven or CM will be played. And maybe the dress code needs to be thrown out too. Dressing differently will not change the music. But talking during a performance would just be plain bad.

BP