Reply to - What are you listening to

[dawncejames]

The very grand and splendid Symphony no 7, movement II. This was the same piece of music that introduced Karl, B's nephew in the film 'Immortal Beloved' - apologies for mentioning the film. I know some members thought it was a travesty and not factual. However, it did re-awaken my interest in the Maestro's music. This same peice of music was also used years ago to advertise swiss watches.

I think if B was alive today, he would be writing film scores, music for state and royal occassions. We may have even disliked the music he would have produced. I think the time he lived in and his personal suffering produced the mood of the music that we like today. He was a man for his time.



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[Peter]

Why would Beethoven be writing for Royal and State occasions today? He hardly did that even in an age of Empires. As for film music, I think it extremely unlikely - Beethoven was not concerned with popular culture but with artistic integrity.

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'Man know thyself'

[dawncejames]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Peter:
Why would Beethoven be writing for Royal and State occasions today? He hardly did that even in an age of Empires. As for film music, I think it extremely unlikely - Beethoven was not concerned with popular culture but with artistic integrity.

[/Apologies, but I was under the impression that B did write music for important people, and he would have had to make a living in today's climate, as unpleasant as it may seem.]



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[Peter]

[quote]Originally posted by dawncejames:

Originally posted by Peter:
Why would Beethoven be writing for Royal and State occasions today? He hardly did that even in an age of Empires. As for film music, I think it extremely unlikely - Beethoven was not concerned with popular culture but with artistic integrity.

[/Apologies, but I was under the impression that B did write music for important people, and he would have had to make a living in today's climate, as unpleasant as it may seem.]

Yes he often (but not always) wrote for aristocratic patrons - chiefly for financial reasons that wouldn't exist in the same way today. How many composers now write for Dukes, Kings or Queens? How many great 20th century composers wrote film music? Yes Prokofiev and Shostakovich have written for film but it was never the mainstay of their work.

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'Man know thyself'

[Sorrano]

Originally posted by Peter:
Yes he often (but not always) wrote for aristocratic patrons - chiefly for financial reasons that wouldn't exist in the same way today. How many composers now write for Dukes, Kings or Queens? How many great 20th century composers wrote film music? Yes Prokofiev and Shostakovich have written for film but it was never the mainstay of their work.

But weren't Prokofiev and Shostakovich influenced a great deal by the State under threat of punishment? Motivation is different but the State still has a hand in the output (whether the State be monochratic or a dictatorship.)

[Peter]

Originally posted by Sorrano:

But weren't Prokofiev and Shostakovich influenced a great deal by the State under threat of punishment? Motivation is different but the State still has a hand in the output (whether the State be monochratic or a dictatorship.)

Yes but I don't think they were told not to write film music - Vaughan Williams is another composer who wrote for film in Scott of the Antarctic, but like Shostakovich and Prokofiev it was never the centre of his work.

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'Man know thyself'

[Gurn Blanston]

Originally posted by Sorrano:

But weren't Prokofiev and Shostakovich influenced a great deal by the State under threat of punishment? Motivation is different but the State still has a hand in the output (whether the State be monochratic or a dictatorship.)

Well, at least the content of what they wrote was heavily influenced, although they weren't "forced to compose", if they did compose it was not at their own standard. But in addition there were many other 20th century composers who wrote for film, probably the most famous being Sergei Rachmaninov (Brief Encounter), but also Fritz Kreisler and Erich Korngold to name but 2. Oh, and George Gershwin, who is probably not counted as classical by many people, but who certainly wrote music in the classical vein (Piano Concerto in F, Rhapdody in Blue, Cuban Overture etc.). IMHO, if you are a composer who writes for a living and not a hobby, then you will go where the money is. Beethoven openly sneered at his aristocratic patrons and belittled them regularly, but he took their money because his options were limited in that regard. The money moved into the entertainment industry in the 20th century so...



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Regards,
Gurn
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That's my opinion, I may be wrong.
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[Sorrano]

Originally posted by Peter:
Yes but I don't think they were told not to write film music - Vaughan Williams is another composer who wrote for film in Scott of the Antarctic, but like Shostakovich and Prokofiev it was never the centre of his work.

Some of the influence from the State, I think, had the opposite effect--at least with Shostakovich. As I recall some of his symphonic works contain personal feelings against the intended influence. But perhaps I am wrong here.

[Peter]

Originally posted by Gurn Blanston:
Well, at least the content of what they wrote was heavily influenced, although they weren't "forced to compose", if they did compose it was not at their own standard. But in addition there were many other 20th century composers who wrote for film, probably the most famous being Sergei Rachmaninov (Brief Encounter), but also Fritz Kreisler and Erich Korngold to name but 2. Oh, and George Gershwin, who is probably not counted as classical by many people, but who certainly wrote music in the classical vein (Piano Concerto in F, Rhapdody in Blue, Cuban Overture etc.). IMHO, if you are a composer who writes for a living and not a hobby, then you will go where the money is. Beethoven openly sneered at his aristocratic patrons and belittled them regularly, but he took their money because his options were limited in that regard. The money moved into the entertainment industry in the 20th century so...

Rachmaninov didn't write for 'Brief Encounter' - they simply used his music which is quite different. Puts me in mind of Death in Venice when some Hollywood producer wanted to sign this Mahler guy!

You are quite wrong about Beethoven and the entertainment industry - in his day it was Italian opera and dance music - if he simply went where the money was he would have concentrated on those genres competing with Rossini and Joseph Lanner.

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'Man know thyself'