Article on Tone Painting

[Peter]

Quite an interesting article on tone-painting
at this site:
www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/09/26/1064083175627.html

------------------
'Man know thyself'

[Rod]

Originally posted by Peter:
Quite an interesting article on tone-painting
at this site:
www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/09/26/1064083175627.html

One cannot really compare 'tone-painting' in vocal music on the same footing as that in instrumental music. I myself lean towards the idea that the latter is vulgar when pushed too far. With Beethoven's 6th the pastoral programme is of course presented by Beethoven, but the 'painting' in this music is subtle to my mind, even in the 'storm', and never distracts from the purely musical nature of the music. The music transcends the confines of the programme.

With a choral piece like Israel in Egypt, one of Handel's great masterpieces, the picture painting discussed in the article is almost a necessity bearing in mind what the chorus are singing about (the various plagues upon the Egyptians), a feat undertaken by Handel with such simple ingenuity, a factor of the man that particularly impressed Beethoven. Handel never wrote in this manner with his instrumental pieces.

By coincidence I was thinking of an oratorio as the subject for the next batch of mp3s at my handelforum yahoo group (see my profile or the 'Links' page for the web address). Israel in Egypt is as good a choice as any so that will be the choice. Pop round to my site next week.


------------------
"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin


[This message has been edited by Rod (edited September 28, 2003).]

[Joy]

Very interesting. I like when the composers take on this form of writing. It makes the music more meaningful, to me anyway, and helps us imagine the 'battle' going on or the 'sounds of nature' happening. Makes it more visual and that to me is a plus in my listening pleasure.

------------------
'Truth and beauty joined'

[Rod]

Those who want to hear Handel's fluttering flies etc, as mentioned in the article, will find them now at my site:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/handelforum/

------------------
"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[This message has been edited by Rod (edited September 29, 2003).]

[Chaszz]

I enjoy even more than tone painting, music where every note seems suffused with nature, whether the composer is consciously trying to do this or not. Almost everything I've ever heard by Sibelius has the brooding dark-hued feelings of the northern landscape. And (here he comes again) Wagner's Ring has the feelings, even the scents of the deep woods, streams and mountains throughout, even when he is not picturing these deliberately. Of course a fervent love of nature was one of the Romantics' favorite themes, and it colored their music more than that of the Classical era. I've argued in the past that Beethoven was a Romantic composer, but here I have to admit he is classical, in that nature does not seem to be expressed directly in his music except when he sets out consciously to do so (although he drew a lot of his inspiration from it).

Some writers have theorized that love of nature develops to a preoccupation when cities grow large enough to cut many people off from it, as happened also in late Roman times, when poetry and painting depicted unspoiled nature more than in the republican era. In less citified times, like the Middle Ages, when nature is woven into the fabric of life, people do not seem to notice it or idealize it very much. Probably they are too busy coping with it to strongly love it. But as it recedes from life, it inspires great art.

Chaszz

[This message has been edited by Chaszz (edited October 02, 2003).]

[Rod]

Originally posted by Chaszz:
I've argued in the past that Beethoven was a Romantic composer, but here I have to admit he is classical, in that nature does not seem to be expressed directly in his music except when he sets out consciously to do so (although he drew a lot of his inspiration from it).

Of course you are right here, this fits in line with what I have said in this chain, though why despite this you still believe Beethoven to be a Romantic of course I do not agree with.

I look forward to you assessment of Handel's picture painting in Isreal in Egypt, Chaszz.

Rod



------------------
"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin