Authentic mp3 page - Pathetique sonata Op.13

[Peter]

Now available to members at www.kingsbarn.freeserve.co.uk/authentic.html

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'Man know thyself'

[Rod]

Originally posted by Peter:
Now available to members at www.kingsbarn.freeserve.co.uk/authentic.html

Well I hope this piece by Immerseel generates more interest than his efforts with op12. A good performance here I think, my favourite of the many I have at hand. The Graf adds a colour unimaginable on the modern piano. This recording I bought some time ago but has recently been re-released I have discovered.

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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[Chaszz]

I don't want to get into a big debate. I will simply state I prefer this movement on the modern piano, no question.

[Rod]

Originally posted by Chaszz:
I don't want to get into a big debate. I will simply state I prefer this movement on the modern piano, no question.

The whole point of my presenting these tracks is to stimulate debate. Frankly I can't see what a modern piano has over the Graf in this instance.

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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[Chaszz]

Originally posted by Rod:
The whole point of my presenting these tracks is to stimulate debate. Frankly I can't see what a modern piano has over the Graf in this instance.

For my taste, the fuller sound and sustaining power of the modern instrument sound better for this movement.

[Rod]

Originally posted by Chaszz:
For my taste, the fuller sound and sustaining power of the modern instrument sound better for this movement.

Then can you explain why so many of the 'modern' perfomances I have heard sound so weak? The power of the instrument is not so much the issue - the Grave here is as effective as any I've heard - it is the ability of it to convey an excited and agitated state, something which the Viennese pianos have the advantage.

On thing I must add is that this CD has a very low recording level, so you will need a good sound system on your computer to hear the track properly.

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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin


[This message has been edited by Rod (edited September 02, 2003).]

[Amalie]

Although I enjoy very much listenting to the fortepiano as it would have been played by Beethoven, my ear is more attuned to the modern piano. I have the 'Pathetique' Sonata by Alfred Brendel, and greatly enjoy it.
I think I would be inclined to agree with Chaszz though, that the modern piano has a richer and greater resonance. The pianoforte seems to have a thinner sound. At least that is the best way that I can describe it.
Perhaps the fortepiano has seems to have a restricted tonal pallet. But I really don't know enough about how they were stringed. I suppose the interesting thing is how Beethoven would have responded to today's modern pianos. Isn't it a bit like the old arguement about whether it is right to play Bach's Harpsichord pieces on modern pianos, and isn't there quite a radical tonal shift between the two?
Am I right in thinking that the strings themselves changed from 'gut' to 'metal' in the 18th century, would this have made a difference to the tone?
Would you think that the modern piano is more suited to the larger concert performances?

The 'Pathetique' Sonata has a wonderful exulted and urgent astmosphere to it.
I was interested to read that Jan Ladislav Dusik (Dussek) wrote a Sonata in the same key about five years earlier, and Beethoven's Sonata resembles it very strikingly in several aspects, it would be reasonable to suggest that Beethoven would have heard Dussek's sonata and may have been an influence.



[This message has been edited by Amalie (edited September 02, 2003).]

[Peter]

Originally posted by Amalie:


The 'Pathetique' Sonata has a wonderful exulted and urgent astmosphere to it.
I was interested to read that Jan Ladislav Dusik (Dussek) wrote a Sonata in the same key about five years earlier, and Beethoven's Sonata resembles it very strikingly in several aspects, it would be reasonable to suggest that Beethoven would have heard Dussek's sonata and may have been a influence.

Beethoven was familiar with Dussek's music - so many of the works of his contemporaries are now forgotten and this sonata was also influenced by Gretry and Cramer.

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'Man know thyself'

[Chaszz]

Originally posted by Rod:
Then can you explain why so many of the 'modern' perfomances I have heard sound so weak? The power of the instrument is not so much the issue - the Grave here is as effective as any I've heard - it is the ability of it to convey an excited and agitated state, something which the Viennese pianos have the advantage.

On thing I must add is that this CD has a very low recording level, so you will need a good sound system on your computer to hear the track properly.

I turned my various volume controls, physical and software, up to the maximum and still would have liked it a little louder.
So maybe this is not a fair example to discuss in depth.

For myself, I've never heard anything approaching the Rudolf Serkin performance of this movement, on the modern piano, on his earlier recording.

[mrfixit]

my old painos sounds so diffrent and strange. I mean its hard to explan, but anyway i think i got a new interest. How easy is it too find period instruments records? Anyway i only heard two peices with it but i think i prefer the sound of old pianos. I think i like the harmonics of the notes better. (hope i made senses with that last sentence lol)

[Joy]

I really enjoyed this recording. It is one of my favourites. Interesting information about it as usual. I can't comment about fortepianos and modern day pianos. I also have Alfred Brendel's rendition of this and enjoy it very much. I also like listening to the fortepianos and I think a lot of it has to do with just knowing that this is the way it sounded in Beethoven's day adds a sort of mystique to the whole listening experience. So I like both.

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'Truth and beauty joined'

[This message has been edited by Joy (edited September 02, 2003).]

[Chris]

A question not (directly) related to period vs. modern piano on this recording:

Did anyone else think the Grave was too fast?

[Rod]

Originally posted by Chris:


Did anyone else think the Grave was too fast?

Not me.

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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[Rod]

Originally posted by Chaszz:
I turned my various volume controls, physical and software, up to the maximum and still would have liked it a little louder.
So maybe this is not a fair example to discuss in depth.

For myself, I've never heard anything approaching the Rudolf Serkin performance of this movement, on the modern piano, on his earlier recording.

The mp3 sounds too quite for my computer too, but the CD itself is superb on my hifi. Perhaps I should have considered this factor earlier and used a different recording. Well too late now.

Why don't you put Serkin's effort here for us to sample?


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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[Rod]

Originally posted by mrfixit:
my old painos sounds so diffrent and strange. I mean its hard to explan, but anyway i think i got a new interest. How easy is it too find period instruments records? Anyway i only heard two peices with it but i think i prefer the sound of old pianos. I think i like the harmonics of the notes better. (hope i made senses with that last sentence lol)

If they didn't sound different there would be little point in using them today, it is the difference I find appealing with these Beethoven pieces. If you keep downloading these tracks, soon enough you will be used to the sound. I used to have all the main paino works on modern pianos only for many years, I don't think I could go back to them now.

New period instrument recordings of Beethoven are rare these days, though they still occur every now and again. I was lucky and jumped on the period band wagon just as it reached its zenith in the late 80's/early 90's. Those days are gone however and many of my recordings are long deleted from the catalogue, so make the most of what I present here.

Gardiner has just released a new recoring of the Violin Concerto on period instruments (Archiv lable), but its not as good as Bruggen's earlier recording which you can still find (Phillips Classics).


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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin