Detail about variations in the Op.111 Arietta
Would you say that the 6 bars prior to the start of the trill on a d note in the interlude after the 4th variation of this Arietta (the interlude that modulates to eb, and is followed by a transition to the final variation) are part of the 4th variation, or they're the beggining of the interlude? I'm asking this because they change the scheme that was followed before, in the 4th variation (both parts of the theme varied first with 32nd note triplets in the bass and then with 32nd note triplets in the treble). The variation of the second part of the theme with the triplets on the treble apparently ends in the bar right before these six bars, and these are quite improvisatory in character and have no relation with the theme (ie: the harmony passes in one moment from c major to a minor, and this is nowhere in the end of the theme). I know this is a rather insignificant detail, but I'm very fond of exactitude in this matter of forms. I suppose Peter will help me here.
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Difficult movement to analyse, but I'd say there is a coda (almost like a development) with wonderful modulations beginning at the cadence point in bar 96 which also includes a decorated restatement of the whole arietta (not a 5th variation!)
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'Man know thyself''Man know thyself' -
Well, your view is certainly reasonable. Could we say then that the "pseudo-fifth variation" is something like a recapitulation?Originally posted by Peter:
Difficult movement to analyse, but I'd say there is a coda (almost like a development) with wonderful modulations beginning at the cadence point in bar 96 which also includes a decorated restatement of the whole arietta (not a 5th variation!)
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I think we'd just call it a repeat as only the theme is presented again. The sections are theme with 4 variations, coda, repeat of theme, coda.Originally posted by chopithoven:
Well, your view is certainly reasonable. Could we say then that the "pseudo-fifth variation" is something like a recapitulation?
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'Man know thyself'
[This message has been edited by Peter (edited August 06, 2003).]'Man know thyself'Comment
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Yes, but isn't this variational form based on sonata form somehow? I'm not saying it's in sonata form, just that it follows the sonata principle of exposition, development, recapitulation. The same happens in the variations of Op.81a and Op.109. B is not simply putting the theme again in the end of the movement, it's a very elaborated procedure, of course.Originally posted by Peter:
I think we'd just call it a repeat as only the theme is presented again. The sections are theme with 4 variations, coda, repeat of theme, coda.
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Do you mean Op.57 instead of Op.81a? (no variation movement in it!)Originally posted by chopithoven:
Yes, but isn't this variational form based on sonata form somehow? I'm not saying it's in sonata form, just that it follows the sonata principle of exposition, development, recapitulation. The same happens in the variations of Op.81a and Op.109. B is not simply putting the theme again in the end of the movement, it's a very elaborated procedure, of course.
Well I see what you are getting at regarding form and in a loose interpretation you could say that - however there isn't a true exposition that modulates to a different key and the only material repeated ('recap')is the opening theme.
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'Man know thyself''Man know thyself'Comment
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Yes, Op.57, of course. Don't know why I made that mistake.Originally posted by Peter:
Do you mean Op.57 instead of Op.81a? (no variation movement in it!)
Well I see what you are getting at regarding form and in a loose interpretation you could say that - however there isn't a true exposition that modulates to a different key and the only material repeated ('recap')is the opening theme.
Well, yes, there are no such rules, it's a free interpretation. It has been written that the variational scheme of the Op.57 is somehow trying to adapt the variation form to the sonata form, creating an effect similar to recapitulation in restating the theme after an ascent in register and development of material during the variations properly said. The same happens in Op.109 and 111. I should have said that B achieves this similarity through the effect similar to recapitulation, and that he did it every time he composed a piano sonata variation after Op.57.
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The theme of Op. 111's last movement, like most variation themes written in the 18th and 19th centuries, is in binary form, a precursor to sonata form. Not having the score, I'll have to listen to it again--a powerfully uplifting activity!--to comment more specifically.Comment
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We could say that this Arietta, as well as the variation movements of Op.57 and Op.109, are rather ternary, if we consider the recapitulation of the theme in the end. I'm not saying that B thought consciously of a ternary form or in adapting the variational form to the sonata form, but he did it. At least it's interesting to see it that way, since in the last period B had an enormous interest for introducing two big structural components (counterpoint and variations) into sonata form works. Listen to the Arietta and you'll see. Of course it will be an uplifting activity!Originally posted by John Rasmussen:
The theme of Op. 111's last movement, like most variation themes written in the 18th and 19th centuries, is in binary form, a precursor to sonata form. Not having the score, I'll have to listen to it again--a powerfully uplifting activity!--to comment more specifically.
[This message has been edited by chopithoven (edited August 09, 2003).]Comment
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