Beethoven's Ninth

[blueangelsrule]

I am new to this website/discussion site....I am really getting into classical music and have become a huge fan of anything Beethoven....my favorite piece, by far, is the Ninth Symphony, which always takes me through a range of emotions....it seems like I have been spoiled by this incredible piece of music--can someone tell me if anything out there approaches Beethoven's Ninth--what classical piece can you recommend that is on the order of the Ninth Symphony?? and where should I go next as far as listening to other works of Beethoven....I welcome any and all responses....thank you....

[spaceray]

Give Beethoven's late string quartets a listen .

"Throughout these works,Beethoven slipped in the thematic cell B-flat,A,C,B-natural.(in the German system,B-flat=B and B-natural=H;thus,this spells BACH).
He pushed melody and harmony, making use of counterpoint, into regions where not even he himself had ever been -and where he had only Mozart and Bach as companions.Here ,he imposed strict structures on his imagination; there,he allowed himself complete liberty. In the end he created a world that existed by itself alone.that lived by the power of it's authority,with reference to nothing else,not even the Ninth Symphony or the Missa Solemnis."

from Beethoven the Composer as Hero, By Philippe Autexier

[Beyond Within]

haha I asked the same thing a month ago...

buy Rachmaninoff's first symphony, it will hit you hard even the first listen

[Peter]

Where to go after the 9th indeed - the composers that came after Beethoven had the same problem and none really succeeded. However in terms of epic structures you could go for Mahler's 2nd.

With regards to listening to other Beethoven I would suggest the 5th piano concerto (Emperor), the overture 'Consecration of the House' and the Missa Soleminis. Of course there is loads to choose from and others will suggest something entirely different, but that is my definite MUST for starters!

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'Man know thyself'

[Amalie]

In addition to Peter's suggested listening, I would also like to add, The Choral Fantasia opus 80. Piano concerto no.4.
Symphony no.6. Pastorale.
The 'Archduke Trio', I am going through a listening phase to this piece at the moment, I especially love the beautiful, sublime and tender hymn like Andante cantabile.

For a quick burst of 'Ode to Joy'
click here--> http://www.beethoven.com/themovie.html

(((Loud volume)))

[Rod]

Originally posted by spaceray:
Give Beethoven's late string quartets a listen .

"Throughout these works,Beethoven slipped in the thematic cell B-flat,A,C,B-natural.(in the German system,B-flat=B and B-natural=H;thus,this spells BACH).
He pushed melody and harmony, making use of counterpoint, into regions where not even he himself had ever been -and where he had only Mozart and Bach as companions.Here ,he imposed strict structures on his imagination; there,he allowed himself complete liberty. In the end he created a world that existed by itself alone.that lived by the power of it's authority,with reference to nothing else,not even the Ninth Symphony or the Missa Solemnis."

from Beethoven the Composer as Hero, By Philippe Autexier

Forgive me, (if forgiveness is required), but I think that book is rubbish.

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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[spaceray]

Don't worry ,forgivness not required at all,Loving LVB means never having to say your sorry! When I read this I howled with laughter knowing then and there exactly your reaction.But with the heat you've been enduring weatherwise I was just checking to see that you hadn't fallen in to a stupor.

[Rod]

Originally posted by spaceray:
Don't worry ,forgivness not required at all,Loving LVB means never having to say your sorry! When I read this I howled with laughter knowing then and there exactly your reaction.But with the heat you've been enduring weatherwise I was just checking to see that you hadn't fallen in to a stupor.

It was raining here in London yesterday!


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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[spaceray]

I'm glad to hear that the weather has cooled off somewhat,it looked awfully windy at the British open yesterday.
P.A.Autexier's essay on Beethoven may be rubbish as you say but the 137 illustrations in this paperback have been a constant source of delight to me.One illustration (from a lithograph)is that of the young Beethoven playing the piano as Mozart looks on.Another lithograph shows the young Beethoven playing the organ for Mozart.This must have been a popular fantasy for illustrators after Beethoven's death.

[Roger Newton]

Originally posted by blueangelsrule:
I am new to this website/discussion site....I am really getting into classical music and have become a huge fan of anything Beethoven....my favorite piece, by far, is the Ninth Symphony, which always takes me through a range of emotions....it seems like I have been spoiled by this incredible piece of music--can someone tell me if anything out there approaches Beethoven's Ninth--what classical piece can you recommend that is on the order of the Ninth Symphony?? and where should I go next as far as listening to other works of Beethoven....I welcome any and all responses....thank you....

Reply:
I have always compared Mahler's Symphony #2, the Resurrection Symphony, to Beethoven's Ninth in terms of the drama of their respective first movements and their choral finales. Mahler's work is too long and could use editing. Beethoven's is the perfect length, which means Mahler's is weaker. But try it out.

[John Rasmussen]

If you love Beethoven's Ninth, you will probably love every symphony by Anton Bruckner. He was the first composer after Beethoven's death to match Beethoven's grandeur and spiritual depth. (Sorry, Schubert fans et al, but lovely as Schubert's, Schumann's, and Mendelssohn's symphonies are, they're simply not as big as Beethoven's Ninth. Also, Brahms' First wasn't completed till 1876, while Bruckner's first was done in 1868.)

And I second the recommendation for Mahler's works.

Try also Alan Hovhaness' "Mysterious Mountain" Symphony (#2). It has a very different style but covers much the same spiritual ground. If you can, get the classic Fritz Reiner/Chicago Symphony recording.

[Sorrano]

Originally posted by John Rasmussen:
If you love Beethoven's Ninth, you will probably love every symphony by Anton Bruckner. He was the first composer after Beethoven's death to match Beethoven's grandeur and spiritual depth. (Sorry, Schubert fans et al, but lovely as Schubert's, Schumann's, and Mendelssohn's symphonies are, they're simply not as big as Beethoven's Ninth. Also, Brahms' First wasn't completed till 1876, while Bruckner's first was done in 1868.)

And I second the recommendation for Mahler's works.

Try also Alan Hovhaness' "Mysterious Mountain" Symphony (#2). It has a very different style but covers much the same spiritual ground. If you can, get the classic Fritz Reiner/Chicago Symphony recording.

I couldn't agree more with you! I've often felt that Bruckner expanded both Schubert's and Beethoven's symphonic concepts, perhaps relying more on Schubert's models than Beethoven's. For me, Bruckner is heir apparent to Schubert's symphonies.

[Amalie]

It is true that Bruckner's symphonies have a mountain like granduer to them, and it is a bit like plodding wearily up a mountain, but when you get there, the view is spectacular. But with great respect his musical ability was very limited. Someone called him once, a genius without talent, and I think that sums up my view of him.
He is a sort of 'GCSE' Beethoven.
But I am sure Bruckner, who was a very modest simple person, and very likeable, would have regarded that as a compliment.

[Peter]

Originally posted by Sorrano:

I couldn't agree more with you! I've often felt that Bruckner expanded both Schubert's and Beethoven's symphonic concepts, perhaps relying more on Schubert's models than Beethoven's. For me, Bruckner is heir apparent to Schubert's symphonies.

I don't really see it - Schubert I adore, Bruckner hmm! I think Bruckner was more influenced by Wagner than Schubert.

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'Man know thyself'

[Sorrano]

Originally posted by Peter:
I don't really see it - Schubert I adore, Bruckner hmm! I think Bruckner was more influenced by Wagner than Schubert.

Perhaps the best thing I can say here is that I feel that Bruckner's symphonies reflect a perfect balance with 19th century orchestration and harmony with 18th century form. While I have respect for Brahms music I do not think his symphonies represent this synthesis as well; they tend to be more 'Romantic' than 'Classical' to me. Bruckner's scherzo's, also typify the Schubertian model, particularly his 9th (Schubert's), with the dynamic and rhythmic movement contrasted with the laendler type trio.