Quotes

[Chaszz]

Originally posted by Joy:
As I was reading "Beethoven's Critics" today I came across what the reviewer had to say about The Third, thought you'd be interested.

“The individuality and rich content of The Eroica would seem to require that we now direct our attention to matters of compositional technique and of mechanical execution, following the composer closely, step by step. The thoroughness with which this work was composed calls for this procedure, if further justification is needed, it may be found in the profit the young composer may derive from such analyses and in the increased pleasure the educated amateur may afterwards derive from listening to it. Perhaps someone may then combine all of this and bring it into focus, if this doesn’t happen, we have at least progressed to the point where one’s feeling about it is no longer vague and doubtful but can lead to a satisfactory judgment. This will gradually become general opinion, thus determining the position of the work of art, its general influence, and fate.”

To me, it seems the reviewer is undecided about the work, but respects Beethoven too much on the basis of his past work, to criticize it negatively. He seems to be calling for a discussion group to analyze the form and technique, with a view to explicating the symphony to the educated public, and perhaps even teaching Beethoven a thing or two about what to do next! Although this is absurd, I give the man credit for being open-minded enough to not reject this massive revolutionary work outright, as many did. I would guess that within a few years he was converted and enthusiastically championing Beethoven again.

[Joy]

Originally posted by Chaszz:
To me, it seems the reviewer is undecided about the work, but respects Beethoven too much on the basis of his past work, to criticize it negatively. He seems to be calling for a discussion group to analyze the form and technique, with a view to explicating the symphony to the educated public, and perhaps even teaching Beethoven a thing or two about what to do next! Although this is absurd, I give the man credit for being open-minded enough to not reject this massive revolutionary work outright, as many did. I would guess that within a few years he was converted and enthusiastically championing Beethoven again.

I have to agree with you that the reviewer seems undecided but respects Beethoven. I imagine that's how a lot of critics felt in his day. You're right a lot of people did reject this massive work in the beginning as they did the 9th as well. Great works take a while for people to understand them I suppose.

Joy

[Joy]

“Resignation, resignation deep and sincere to your fate! only this can give you the self sacrifice for your obligation...Endurance and resignation, resignation! it is by this that we can be gainers even in deepest misery and make ourselves worthy of God’s forgiveness!”
‘Ten years after the Heiligenstadt Testament there are entries in his diary which show something of the struggle when all cures proved useless, and resignation came harder to him than perhaps to any artist who has suffered a comparable affliction’.
“Beethoven The Last Decade 1817-1827”

Joy

[Troels]

Originally posted by lysander:

"It was not a fortuitous meeting of chordal atoms that made the world. If order and beauty are reflected in the constitution of the universe, then there is a God."

I would like to have that statement in Beethoven's own German words if someone can find them. I want to translate them for a couple of my websites and a translation of a translation is simply too unprecise. This is a very strong statement and should be presented as precisely as possible.

[lysander]

Originally posted by Troels:
I would like to have that statement in Beethoven's own German words if someone can find them. I want to translate them for a couple of my websites and a translation of a translation is simply too unprecise. This is a very strong statement and should be presented as precisely as possible.

German Translation of above quote;-

"Es war nicht eine Zufallige Sitzung der Sehnenatome, die die Welt bildeten.
Wenn Auftrag und Schonheit in der Beschaffenheit des Universums reflektiert werden, dann gibt es einen Gott."


Ludwig van Beethoven
~x~


There is an Umlaut above the letter, a, in Zufallige, and above the letter, o, in Schonheit.

I trust this will be helpful for you.

Lysander.

[Troels]

Originally posted by lysander:

"Es war nicht eine Zufallige Sitzung der Sehnenatome, die die Welt bildeten.
Wenn Auftrag und Schonheit in der Beschaffenheit des Universums reflektiert werden, dann gibt es einen Gott."

Ludwig van Beethoven

I trust this will be helpful for you.

Lysander.

Thank you indeed. That helps very much. Very often a German phrase may be translated much more naturally to Danish than to English. But I'll have to ponder which specific meaning of the word "Auftrag" I must choose.

The term "Sehnenatome" makes me wonder if Beethoven was thinking of the worlds creation as a MUSICAL event: what David Hykes calls the "Big Ring".

[lysander]

"Provided one can feel the music, one can also make the pianoforte sing"

Luwig van Beethoven ~x~

[Chaszz]

Originally posted by lysander:
German Translation of above quote;-

"Es war nicht eine Zufallige Sitzung der Sehnenatome, die die Welt bildeten.
Wenn Auftrag und Schonheit in der Beschaffenheit des Universums reflektiert werden, dann gibt es einen Gott."


Ludwig van Beethoven
~x~


There is an Umlaut above the letter, a, in Zufallige, and above the letter, o, in Schonheit.

I trust this will be helpful for you.

Lysander.

Łysander, if you tŷpe your pöst in Micrösoft Wörd, and use theĭr Insêrt – symbol feature to put in the accents, then cðpy and påste the whole posting into the førum entry, it will display the accent. A lot of trouble to go through, but I just thõught you mîght líke to knöw. - Châszz

[Joy]

*”You will hear nothing of me here. What should you hear? Fidelio? They cannot give it, nor do they want to listen to it. The symphonies? They have no time for them. My concertos? Everyone grinds out only the stuff he himself has made. The solo pieces? They went out of fashion here long ago, and here fashion is everything. At most Ignaz Franz Schuppanzigh digs up a quartet.”
Told to Rochlitz in 1822

[lysander]

Beethoven was said to have taken offense to Hummel's criticism of his Mass in C. However, the friendship persevered, and in 1814 Beethoven enlisted Hummel as the percussiionist for a performanced of his Wellington's Victory, with this delightful letter;

"Most charming Hummel! please conduct this time too the drum-rolls and cannonades with your excellent Kapellmeister's and Master of the Ordnance's baton - please do so.
If you would like me to cannonade you sometime, I am at your service, both body and soul".

~Your friend Beethoven ~

[Andrea]

"One must not hold one's self so divine as to be unwilling occasionally to make improvements in one's creations."
- 4 March 1809, to Breitkorpf and Härtel, when indicating a few changes which he wished to have made in the symphonies op. 67 and 68.

[Andrea]

"Blessed is he who has overcome all passions and then procedes energetically to perform his duties under all circumstances careless of success! Let the motive lie in the deed, not in the outcome. Be not one of those whose spring of action is the hope of reward. Do not let your life pass in inactivity. Be industrious, do your duty, banish all thoughts as to the results, be they good or evil; for such equanimity is attention to intellectual things. Seek an asylum only in Wisdom; for he who is wretched and unhappy is so only in consequence of things. The truly wise man does not concern himself with the good and evil of this world. Therefore endeavor diligently to preserve this use of your reason; for in the affairs of this world such a use is a precious art."
- Diary.

[lysander]

"All evil is mysterious and appears greater when viewed alone"

~ Beethoven ~



[This message has been edited by lysander (edited April 26, 2003).]

[lysander]

"Even had Newton or Leibnitz never lived, the world would have had the calculus, but
that if Beethoven had not lived, we would
never have had the C minor Symphony"

- Albert Einstein-

[This message has been edited by lysander (edited April 26, 2003).]

[Joy]

Really enjoyed the above quote, Lysander. Here's another one not by Beethoven but by Schubert.

“Beethoven can do everything, but we cannot yet understand all that he does, and a lot of water will flow under the Danube bridges before this man’s creations are generally understood. Mozart’s relationship to Beethoven is like Schiller’s to Shakespeare, Schiller is already understood, but Shakespeare by no means. No one understands Beethoven unless he has a high share of intelligence and even more of feeling and has been very unhappy in love or in some other way”.
”If Schubert’s words are accurately reported, we have here one of the fundamental tenets of the Romantics, that unhappiness, because it forces a man to look into himself, is a key to the understanding of great art, and to be rated on a par with strong intelligence and an ability to feel deeply.”
Beethoven: The Last Decade