Authentic page - 'Adelaide' Op.46

[Peter]

Now available to members at www.kingsbarn.freeserve.co.uk/authentic.html

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'Man know thyself'

[Joy]

This was a very good rendition of this song. Also enjoyed reading the poem and some of the history behind this music particularly about how the 'song was on the program of the composer's last public appearance and accompanied the singer Fritz Wild in a performance for the Russian empress.' Interesting story I did not know. Always something to learn!

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'Truth and beauty joined'

[lysander]

Concerning this very popular song, Adelaide, op.46, Ludwig told Matthisson;-

"I dedicate to you a work which welled forth
so warmly from my heart"


It is indeed a very sweet charming heartfelt poem which may have been based on a personal experience, and captivates the essence of romanticism, which is a tragic understanding of the world and man's place in it.
The poem evokes the romantic feeling of the age associating love with death and despair.
As in Goethe's great publishing sensation which took Europe by storm about doomed unrequited love, and the sorrows of a young 'Werther', who comitted suicide.

Beethoven collected 16 volumes of Matthisson's 'Lyric Anthology'.

I have Beethoven songs on CD, which includes 'Adelaide' sung by - STEPHAN GENZ (baritone), produced by Hyperion - a much cherished CD of mine.

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Dear sweet Ludwig, my heavenly messenger.




[This message has been edited by lysander (edited July 10, 2003).]

[Rod]

Ian Partridge is more typically a Baroque tenor from my experience. Not the steadiest of singers, but at least there is no bombast to assault the ear.

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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[This message has been edited by Rod (edited July 11, 2003).]

[Joy]

Originally posted by Rod:
Ian Partridge is more typically a Baroque tenor from my experience. Not the steadiest of singers, but at least there is no bombast to assault the ear.

I agree there is no assaulting the ear with this tenor,as some can be pretty annoying.
It looks like he's all over England doing concerts. If anyone's interested in more iinformation here's a link:
http://www.ianpartridge.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/

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'Truth and beauty joined'

[This message has been edited by Joy (edited July 11, 2003).]

[spaceray]

This was delicious singing ,wish I could sing German as perfectly as this tenor does.

[Andrea]

Once again, thank you Rod for posting this lovely piece.

I have four of Beethoven's later choral music that I quite enjoy. My favorite being "Elegischer Gesang, Op. 118" (Elegiac Song). Written in 1814 for soprano, alto, tenor and bass soloists with string accompaniment, this elegy demonstrates an unusually tender side of Beethoven's nature. Perhaps the song's dedication explains the composer's gentelness: "To the memory of the transfigured wife of my honored friend, Pasqualati, from his friend Ludwig van Beethoven." Baron Johann Pasqualati was physician to the Empress Maria Theresia and one of the most sympathetic of Beethoven's many landlords. In remembrance of the Baron's wife, who died in childbirth three years before, Beethoven composed this song to texts by an unidentified author.

[Rod]

Originally posted by Andrea:
Once again, thank you Rod for posting this lovely piece.

I have four of Beethoven's later choral music that I quite enjoy. My favorite being "Elegischer Gesang, Op. 118" (Elegiac Song). Written in 1814 for soprano, alto, tenor and bass soloists with string accompaniment, this elegy demonstrates an unusually tender side of Beethoven's nature. Perhaps the song's dedication explains the composer's gentelness: "To the memory of the transfigured wife of my honored friend, Pasqualati, from his friend Ludwig van Beethoven." Baron Johann Pasqualati was physician to the Empress Maria Theresia and one of the most sympathetic of Beethoven's many landlords. In remembrance of the Baron's wife, who died in childbirth three years before, Beethoven composed this song to texts by an unidentified author.

Do you have a recording of Op118 in its original scoring, ie for soloists and string quartet? I only have the choral arrangement and have been looking for the original for a long time. Although the choral version still maintains the works ample beauty, I feel the sentiments of the words would be better conveyed by more modest forces.

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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin


[This message has been edited by Rod (edited July 12, 2003).]

[Rod]

For the record I did not compile the notes from the cd liner as I usually do, in my lazy fashion, but even lazier I lifted it straight from the internet, and thus feel it necessary to credit the author, Carla Ramsey.
I only 'borrowed' part of her analysis, for the remainder go to:
http://www.jussibjorlingsociety.com/...art-00004.html

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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin


[This message has been edited by Rod (edited July 12, 2003).]

[Amalie]

Thank you Rod for that very interesting link. This heartfelt poem is the epitomy
of the romantic sensibility.


"For thee, dear Beethoven, no happiness may be expected outside thyself. Thou wilt have to create everything within. Only in the ideal world shalt thou find her who loves thee"

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Amalie/Lysander


"How do I love thee;
let me count the ways.
I love thee to the depths
and breadth and height
my soul can reach"



[This message has been edited by Amalie (edited July 12, 2003).]

[Rod]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Amalie:
[B]
Thank you Rod for that very interesting link. This heartfelt poem is the epitomy
of the romantic sensibility.
[B][QUOTE]

Maybe so, as long as you are talking about romantic with a small 'r' with regard to Beethoven's use of it!

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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[This message has been edited by Rod (edited July 13, 2003).]

[Amalie]

[quote]Originally posted by Rod:
[b][QUOTE]Originally posted by Amalie:
[B]
Thank you Rod for that very interesting link. This heartfelt poem is the epitomy
of the romantic sensibility.

Maybe so, as long as you are talking about romantic with a small 'r' with regard to Beethoven's use of it!

Yes Rod, In a wider intellectual sense Romanticism affected the whole of the arts and also changed not just the course of European history politicaly but also the temperament and mindset of Europe.
Really Romanticism proper was launched by two great publishing events, firstly was the publication of Goethe's - 'The Sorrows of young Werther' 1774.
Secondly, the Wordsworth and Coleridge great collaboration; The Lyrical Ballads, 1797.
A fine example of romantic poetry was - 'Adelaide' , and I very much feel that Ludwig was profoundly romantic.

This has brought to mind a poem that I have read written by Goethe, which can also apply to Beethoven and the whole of the Romantic movement, with the emphasis on the dark inner wellspring of being and individuality. I can't help thinking of Ludwig when I read the last two lines;-


Ich mochte dir mein ganzes Innre zeigen,
Allein das Schicksal will es nicht.


I should like to show you all my inner being
but fate will not permit it.

Lysander




[This message has been edited by Amalie (edited July 13, 2003).]

[Amalie]

As a further thought, for me, Beethoven's music awakens that infinite longing of the human soul and to sublime heights and depths of human emotion, which is the hallmark of romanticism.
I think Beethoven saw himself as a classic romantic figure; Isolated, lonely, heroic,
lovelorn, rather misunderstood, communing by himsef in nature and with God, even tragic. All of these are traits of the classic romantic character.
Does anyone doubt Beethoven did not see himself in this way?
Compare for instance with Mozart who had more than his fair share of troubles like 'B', but would never have regarded himself in the classical romantic mould, not least because he was a very social and sociable figure or saw himself in that light, and probably would have found the romanitic philosophy distinctly odd and uncomfortable.

Lysander

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[This message has been edited by Amalie (edited July 13, 2003).]

[Rod]

Originally posted by Amalie:
As a further thought, for me, Beethoven's music awakens that infinite longing of the human soul and to sublime heights and depths of human emotion, which is the hallmark of romanticism.
I think Beethoven saw himself as a classic romantic figure; Isolated, lonely, heroic,
lovelorn, rather misunderstood, communing by himsef in nature and with God, even tragic. All of these are traits of the classic romantic character.
Does anyone doubt Beethoven did not see himself in this way?
Compare for instance with Mozart who had more than his fair share of troubles like 'B', but would never have regarded himself in the classical romantic mould, not least because he was a very social and sociable figure or saw himself in that light, and probably would have found the romanitic philosophy distinctly odd and uncomfortable.

Lysander

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[This message has been edited by Amalie (edited July 13, 2003).]

Well Beethoven, largely through his increasing deafness did become an isolated and lonely figure in reality - it was not a matter of his having a Romantic conception of himself. On a good day B could be the jolliest of men when his troubles were behind him. And I would not regard his strong moral streak as a typical Romantic trait.

It is true that the Classical era composers, Beethoven aside, tended to neglect nature, but a love of nature in itself I do not regard as the sole possession of the Romantics. Handel was a great nature lover and always fitted pastoral numbers in his music wherever he could. He also wrote a lot of music for the 'Arcadian Society' in Italy on pastoral themes, yet who would call Handel, or the Arcadian Society 'Romantics' in the early 1700s?

If one accepts, as we all do, that Chopin and Liszt etc are Romantic composers, how can Beethoven fit into this grouping when the latter part of his career especially he became what one (ie me) could call a quasi-baroque classisist?


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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin



[This message has been edited by Rod (edited July 14, 2003).]