Haydn at Mozart's death

[Chaszz]

Was Haydn's reaction to Mozart's death recorded? Since he invited Mozart to go to London with him, was Haydn 'free' of the Esterhazys when Mozart died, and were the two living near each other, or in regular contact? Does the famous Haydn quote to Mozart's father, about his son being the greatest composer Haydn knew, after the 'Haydn' quartets had been presented by Mozart to Haydn, date from just before Mozart's death? I could look all this up but I know that Peter, for one, will have it all in his memory.

[Gurn Blanston]

Originally posted by Chaszz:
Was Haydn's reaction to Mozart's death recorded? Since he invited Mozart to go to London with him, was Haydn 'free' of the Esterhazys when Mozart died, and were the two living near each other, or in regular contact? Does the famous Haydn quote to Mozart's father, about his son being the greatest composer Haydn knew, after the 'Haydn' quartets had been presented by Mozart to Haydn, date from just before Mozart's death? I could look all this up but I know that Peter, for one, will have it all in his memory.

Don't have my books here at work, but can tell you from memory that Haydn's letter to Leopold was written in 1786, just before Leopold's death, and although L was very proud of it and showed it to his friends, he never showed it to Wolfgang, as he didn't want to give him any satisfaction. I also know that he said some strong things about M's death, very complimentary, but I can't remember the text, sorry.
Regards, Gurn

[Peter]

Originally posted by Chaszz:
Was Haydn's reaction to Mozart's death recorded? Since he invited Mozart to go to London with him, was Haydn 'free' of the Esterhazys when Mozart died, and were the two living near each other, or in regular contact? Does the famous Haydn quote to Mozart's father, about his son being the greatest composer Haydn knew, after the 'Haydn' quartets had been presented by Mozart to Haydn, date from just before Mozart's death? I could look all this up but I know that Peter, for one, will have it all in his memory.

Haydn made this remark to Leopold Mozart in 1785 - 6 years before Mozart's death. Haydn's reaction to Mozart's death (which he heard of whilst in London) was one of disbelief at first as it was quite common to read your own obituary in those days! When it was confirmed he is reported to have said 'posterity will not see such a talent for 100 years'. Haydn wasn't entirely free but as good as - Estehazy was in a difficuly position having a world famous celebrity as a 'servant'! The two composers were in contact and Eisenstadt isn't that far from Vienna. Haydn was obviously living in Vienna when Beethoven arrived in 1792 for lessons.

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'Man know thyself'

[spaceray]

Haydn and Mozart were great friends and admirers of eachother's work ,Hadyn felt the loss of his dear friend dreadfully.

[Steppenwolf]

Just another bit of incidental info (perhaps of interest) - Mozart's Requiem Mass was played at Haydn's funeral. Not sure if he requested it before his death, but I'm sure he would have approved even if he didn't.

Two other bits of Haydn trivia for anybody interested (sorry for straying from the topic).

Haydn, as a boy, was nearly castrated! He was a soprano singer at his local cathedral, and the choirmaster there told him that he could keep his beautiful voice if he just underwent a simple little 'operation' (he spared him the specific details). He had a narrow escape - his father found out about it and came to rescue him as he was sitting in the waiting room! I wonder how his career would have differed if he had gone under the chopper.

Also, Haydn (again as a boy soprano) sung at the composer Vivaldi's funeral.

[Gurn Blanston]

Originally posted by Steppenwolf:
Just another bit of incidental info (perhaps of interest) - Mozart's Requiem Mass was played at Haydn's funeral. Not sure if he requested it before his death, but I'm sure he would have approved even if he didn't.

Two other bits of Haydn trivia for anybody interested (sorry for straying from the topic).

Haydn, as a boy, was nearly castrated! He was a soprano singer at his local cathedral, and the choirmaster there told him that he could keep his beautiful voice if he just underwent a simple little 'operation' (he spared him the specific details). He had a narrow escape - his father found out about it and came to rescue him as he was sitting in the waiting room! I wonder how his career would have differed if he had gone under the chopper.

Also, Haydn (again as a boy soprano) sung at the composer Vivaldi's funeral.

I'm sure his career would have been different, famous castratos were in great demand as traveling showmen, but considering his not inconsiderable reputation as a "master swordsman", I expect his whole life would have been different! Yes, it's true, "Papa" loved to play around, and since he wasn't happy at the house, there was a tendency to act the bohemian on all those road trips. On the upside, many of his finest works were written for his lady "students", so we would not have had those, either. B would have been scandalised!
Regards, Gurn


[This message has been edited by Gurn Blanston (edited May 10, 2003).]

[spaceray]

Originally posted by Gurn Blanston:
I'm sure his career would have been different, famous castratos were in great demand as traveling showmen, but considering his not inconsiderable reputation as a "master swordsman", I expect his whole life would have been different! Yes, it's true, "Papa" loved to play around, and since he wasn't happy at the house, there was a tendency to act the bohemian on all those road trips. On the upside, many of his finest works were written for his lady "students", so we would not have had those, either. B would have been scandalised!
Regards, Gurn


[This message has been edited by Gurn Blanston (edited May 10, 2003).]

Haydn wasn't happy at home because he made a terrible marriage to a woman who couldn't appreciate his work and disliked any kind of music ,they hated eachother.Thank heaven's he made a few conquests on the road life for him would have been dull with out a lady or two in it. What was the name of his girlfriend the diva that couldn't sing? He Edited all her music to a level of her ability,now thats LOVE!

[Andrea]

Mozart often had nothing but praise for his friend and fellow Freemason, Haydn:

"Melt us two together, and we will fall far short of making a Haydn...It was a duty that I owed to Haydn to dedicate my quartets to him; for it was from him that I learned how to write quartets...Nobody can do everything,-jest and terrify, cause laughter or move profoundly,-like Joseph Haydn."


In 1791 Haydn went to London and asked Mozart to accompany him. Mozart refused because his wife was ill. Haydn went alone and soon afterwards Mozart died. This affected Haydn so badly that even years later tears would come into his eyes if Mozart's death was mentioned.

Also when the sad news of Mozart's death reached Haydn he wrote to a fellow Mason and banker Johann Michael Puchberg, "For some time I was beside myself about his death, and I could not believe that Providence would so soon claim the life of such an indispensable man."

[Gurn Blanston]

Originally posted by spaceray:
What was the name of his girlfriend the diva that couldn't sing? He Edited all her music to a level of her ability,now thats LOVE!

Space,
Was that Luigia Polzelli whom he signed a marrige declaration to and then backed out? The dog! ;-))
Regards, Gurn

[spaceray]

Yes it was, by George,she blackmailed Papa into signing a pre marital contract where he promised not to marry anyone but her if he should get divorced widowed or otherwise become free from the wife he had.Luigia was married I believe?

[SR]

Originally posted by Andrea:


"Melt us two together, and we will fall far short of making a Haydn...It was a duty that I owed to Haydn to dedicate my quartets to him; for it was from him that I learned how to write quartets...Nobody can do everything,-jest and terrify, cause laughter or move profoundly,-like Joseph Haydn."


In 1791 Haydn went to London and asked Mozart to accompany him. Mozart refused because his wife was ill. Haydn went alone and soon afterwards Mozart died. This affected Haydn so badly that even years later tears would come into his eyes if Mozart's death was mentioned.

The story you allude to was one where Mozart and Kozeluch (a mostly forgotten composer) were listening to a performance of some Haydn piece. Kozeluch made a snide remark to Mozart regarding the composition. Mozart reprimanded him with the statement that "you and I together don't equal half a Haydn"

It was very unusual of Mozart to make a self depricating remark. It says volumes about his respect for Haydn and loathing of Kozeluch.


As to London, Mozart had been the first choice for the trip. He declined due to a combination of health issues and the very recent birth of son Franz Xavier. When Haydn left, he and Mozart said farewell. Mozart commented that "I am afraid I will not see you again old friend" He believed at Haydn's age the long trip would prove too much. Sadly Mozart was correct, but it was Mozart who died.

Contrary to the presentation in Amadeus, Mozart did not die a pauper, but he was having financial troubles. The trip proved quite lucrative for Haydn and would certainly have been just what Mozart needed had he been the one to go, or had he followed later.

Regards

Steve

[Gurn Blanston]

Steve,
Thank you very much for filling in those details. I knew some of that generally, but your account was quite succinct. Tell me, where did you run across this information?
Regards, Gurn

[SR]

Gurn...

Thanks for the succint compliment. Unfortunatly I don't remember where I picked up that information. I've been reading liner notes for 40 years, and also own about 40 books on Mozartean history. At my age the stories stick better than the sources. If I recall later I'll get back to you.

Regards

Steve

[Gurn Blanston]

Originally posted by SR:
Gurn...

Thanks for the succint compliment. Unfortunatly I don't remember where I picked up that information. I've been reading liner notes for 40 years, and also own about 40 books on Mozartean history. At my age the stories stick better than the sources. If I recall later I'll get back to you.

Regards

Steve

Steve, Ok, sounds good. Sounds like you have a great library. Mine is only moderate in comparison, but much-treasured nonetheless. Also know what you mean about detail slipping away, another commonality, I'm afraid. ;-))
Regards, Gurn

[arbaqi]

hi guys:
it is a very interesting information that is been discussed there.
hyden is very famous ,i heard about him a lot and read some through mozart and beethoven lives.
i have been thinking about listenning to the guy,and i feel now more motivated to do that so what do you recommend for me as to be known as his best.
best regsrds.
thank you all.