Authentic page - string trio Op.3

[Peter]

Now available to members at www.kingsbarn.freeserve.co.uk/authentic.html

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'Man know thyself'

[Andrea]

As usual, I enjoyed these early works by Beethoven. There's not a lot of information to be found on this Op.3 work. Basically what Peter had posted was all that I, too ,was able to find.

Thank you Rod for this lovely recording of a lesser known Beethoven composition.

[Rod]

Originally posted by Andrea:
As usual, I enjoyed these early works by Beethoven. There's not a lot of information to be found on this Op.3 work. Basically what Peter had posted was all that I, too ,was able to find.

Thank you Rod for this lovely recording of a lesser known Beethoven composition.

This is a pretty good recording. Actually I would say L'Archibudelli's rendition of Op3 is sometimes a touch too relaxed for my taste, but there is still much good playing. They make a better job of the Op8 trio also on the disk. But regardless I like the dry smooth texture of the gut strings and also the more restrained use of vibrato.

PS: Rod typed out the text too! (edited from the CD liner notes)

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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[This message has been edited by Rod (edited May 27, 2003).]

[Joy]

I enjoy these earlier works as well. Very interesting to see how Beethoven evolved into what he did musically. Interesting history also about the "British cotton manufacturer Gardiner being the first to introduce the name and genius of Beethoven to England". Like Andrea I couldn't find anymore information on these either except that they think the work was possibly first sketched while Beethoven was still in Bonn.

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'Truth and beauty joined'

[Rod]

I was half expecting Peter to censor the comment about Mozart's trio!

[Peter]

Originally posted by Rod:
I was half expecting Peter to censor the comment about Mozart's trio!

I should have done for though Op.3 is a fine work, K.563 is a profound masterpiece that the Beethoven does not really equal let alone surpass in my view. Still I'll let this one pass!

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'Man know thyself'

[Rod]

Originally posted by Peter:
I should have done for though Op.3 is a fine work, K.563 is a profound masterpiece that the Beethoven does not really equal let alone surpass in my view. Still I'll let this one pass!

Much the same has been said of Mozart's Quintet K. 452 in relation to Beethoven's Op16. As you know I feel quite the opposite is the case.

On another recording I had of op3 the writer of the notes described op3 as a 'deeper' work than Mozart's effort. You pays your money, you takes your choice!


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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[Chaszz]

Amazing music for a 22-year old.

Which format do the notes mean that Beethoven used for all his string trios - the six movements or the instrumentation or both?

Would Beethoven prefer that an animal die to provide gut strings when an artificial method is available to furnish approximately equivalent sound?

Chaszz
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"Men become civilised, not in proportion to their willingness to believe, but in proportion to their readiness to doubt."

[Chaszz]

Originally posted by Peter:
I should have done for though Op.3 is a fine work, K.563 is a profound masterpiece that the Beethoven does not really equal let alone surpass in my view. Still I'll let this one pass!

Rod will be happy to know that while I was looking on naxos.com, in vain, for a recording of this Mozart K.563, I came by chance upon a historical recording of a violinist named Maud Powell playing a largo from Handel's Xerxes which moved me greatly. And by the sound of it it was from 1910 or so, which would seem to show that to some extent non-Messiah Handel was in the repertory at that time.

[This message has been edited by Chaszz (edited May 28, 2003).]

[spaceray]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Chaszz:
[B] Rod will be happy to know Handel's Xerxes ... moved me greatly.


For what it's worth to you this news makes me very happy.

[Gurn Blanston]

Originally posted by Rod:

Much the same has been said of Mozart's Quintet K. 452 in relation to Beethoven's Op16. As you know I feel quite the opposite is the case.

On another recording I had of op3 the writer of the notes described op3 as a 'deeper' work than Mozart's effort. You pays your money, you takes your choice!

Rod,
Who's performance is the other that you have? I have both disks of L'Archibudelli and I quite agree with the group, they are very nice, but I would also like to hear a different interpretation and have never found one. Also, how do you feel it compares with the one at hand? Thanks for putting this one up even though I didn't need it, I still appreciate hearing some discussion of chamber music for a change!
Regards, Gurn

PS - I'm not even going to get into the Op 3/K563 or Op 16/K 452 discussions. Apples and oranges, love 'em both ;-)

[Rod]

Originally posted by Gurn Blanston:
Rod,
Who's performance is the other that you have? I have both disks of L'Archibudelli and I quite agree with the group, they are very nice, but I would also like to hear a different interpretation and have never found one. Also, how do you feel it compares with the one at hand? Thanks for putting this one up even though I didn't need it, I still appreciate hearing some discussion of chamber music for a change!
Regards, Gurn

I had a recording of Op3 by the Cummings Trio, but there are a few other recordings, though you may need to buy the whole set of trios to hear it.

The Cumming's trio have a good grasp of the piece, and are in places tighter than L'Archibudelli's performance, but I have problems with their less than perfect intonation and the vibrato gets on my nerves after a while. Also I prefer the gut string sound of L'Archibudelli.

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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[Rod]

Originally posted by Chaszz:
Amazing music for a 22-year old.

Which format do the notes mean that Beethoven used for all his string trios - the six movements or the instrumentation or both?

The format I meant was the use of violin, viola and cello. Op8 has seven movements, Op9 have four movements each.

Originally posted by Chaszz:

Would Beethoven prefer that an animal die to provide gut strings when an artificial method is available to furnish approximately equivalent sound?

Chaszz

I suspect the question never occured to Beethoven, nor me for that matter, but I doubt if the animals were killed solely for the production of strings and the rest of the carcass thrown away. I'll look into this. I know animal rights protesters who still wear leather shoes!


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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[This message has been edited by Rod (edited May 29, 2003).]

[Rod]

Originally posted by Chaszz:
Rod will be happy to know that while I was looking on naxos.com, in vain, for a recording of this Mozart K.563, I came by chance upon a historical recording of a violinist named Maud Powell playing a largo from Handel's Xerxes which moved me greatly. And by the sound of it it was from 1910 or so, which would seem to show that to some extent non-Messiah Handel was in the repertory at that time.

[This message has been edited by Chaszz (edited May 28, 2003).]

This Largo is one of Handel's most well known pieces outside of Messiah, so I would not really see this as an example of a wider appreciation of Handel's other works.

I will add that this version of the Largo is an arrangement of an aria from Serse and I don't think it was done by Handel himself. I doubt if anyone knows any other part of this opera. In fact most of the operas were not recorded at all until very recently. I think some still await a release.

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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[This message has been edited by Rod (edited May 29, 2003).]

[Gurn Blanston]

Originally posted by Rod:
I had a recording of Op3 by the Cummings Trio, but there are a few other recordings, though you may need to buy the whole set of trios to hear it.

The Cumming's trio have a good grasp of the piece, and are in places tighter than L'Archibudelli's performance, but I have problems with their less than perfect intonation and the vibrato gets on my nerves after a while. Also I prefer the gut string sound of L'Archibudelli.

Rod,
Thanks for the info. Having to buy a whole set to get one work doesn't bother me (well, maybe the CBE to get a set of variations ;-)), but I agree that I really like the sound of L'Archibudelli, so it would have to come very highly recommended.
Thanks again,
Regards,
Gurn